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You honestly think people are tackling senior citizens just because there are fewer police officers to stop them? You might be the one with a questionable world

You honestly think people are tackling senior citizens just because there are fewer police officers to stop them? You might be the one with a questionable worldview here, not the author.

julienb_sea 6y ago
The article calls out multiple thefts, i.e. economically motivated crimes of opportunity. Classifying this as a hate crime justifies shifting blame and focus away from means of preventing and prosecuting crimes of opportunity.
- ratsmack 6y ago
  Attacking the weak and elderly is a pretty hateful thing to do.
  - xboxnolifes 6y ago
    Hate has nothing to do with it if it's economically motivated.
    - ratsmack 6y ago
      Calling it "economically motivated" diminish the heinous act of mugging and theft, which is predatory and driven from greed and wanton disregard for others rights and property.
  - runsWphotons 6y ago
    @xboxnolifes. As I posted elsewhere, watch this and tell me if it looks "economically motivated". Even in the cases where this violence is "economically motivated", does that mean hate isn't a factor? So as long as I steal some money nothing is a hate crime? (I don't really know what I think of the category "hate crime", but if we are going to have them it seems the rules should be elucidated). https://abc7news.com/san-francisco-senior-attacked-sf-man-pushed-on-video-day-time-attack-caught-anza-vista-crime/10205928/ https://abc7news.com/san-francisco-senior-attacked-sf-man-pu... [edit for clarity: Not a fan of jumping to call things "hate crimes". Also not a fan of trying to caste a mitigating aura on violent crime by saying it is all "economically motivated", especially when that is not true of all these crimes. Double plus fan of police enforcing the law and keeping violent people locked away.]
runsWphotons 6y ago
You honestly think reduced police presence has no effect? If you put that in context with race-based rhetoric characterising Asians as part of "white supremacy", it makes as much sense as the other thing. How about a third hypothesis: this idea went viral and people figure they can get away with it now. Or a fourth: the people doing this probably should already have been in jail in many cases.
- brokencode 6y ago
  Because people think they can get away with it now? You think people are sitting around waiting for the day they can get away with seriously injuring a senior citizen? I think this is about xenophobia and hatred towards China as a source of the coronavirus, amplified by the former president’s rhetoric about the “kung-flu” or “China virus” as he repeatedly called it.
  - runsWphotons 6y ago
    As a matter of fact, some people do wait around for moments when they can get away with violent crime. I've met them and this is how some people think (maybe even most violent people are this way). During one weekend of the protests in Chicago this summer, there was a weekend with over 20 murders, which happened partly because people knew all the police were downtown and it was a good moment to settle scores (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52984535 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52984535). I agree with you this could have something to do with the rhetoric you mention, just as well as other political rhetoric. It could also just have to do with virality, the impression of lawlessness/lack of repercussions, the "fun" of being violent, and people in public who shouldn't be. In the end, if you shoot a woman in the head with a flare gun, I'm not too concerned whether you claim you did it because "of the president's rhetoric", "to fight white/asian supremacy", or "to steal her pocketbook for economic motivations". I'm more concerned that the police arrest you and the government locks you up until you know better. Anything else looks like more deflection of responsibility to me.
  - mc32 6y ago
    A while ago, in my youth, I worked longside guys who had been let out. Yes, they do seek weaknesses and they know what they are. They know the vulnerable population and the population that does not fight. Example, they would hit richer folks for certain things because they would not get chased as they would more than likely have insurance. They had many stories to tell. They go to SF and they avoid DC (San Mateo Co.). It's not xenophobia or wealthphobia or whatnotphobia. No it's easyphilia.
rednerrus 6y ago
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/2/13/18193661/hire-police-officers-crime-criminal-justice-reform-booker-harris https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/2/13/18193661/h... I tend to turn to this article and the studies cited when discussing police as crime deterrent. What evidence is driving your ideas on the subject?
- brokencode 6y ago
  I’m not saying police aren’t a crime deterrent, and I don’t support the idea of defunding or vilifying the police as a whole. I do support common-sense reforms to reduce the use of force and make police more accountable, though. I’m saying that it takes a very sick and twisted state of mind to commit violence towards the elderly like this, and it isn’t “normal” crime. It takes real hatred and rage to do something like this.

You honestly think people are tackling senior citizens just because there are fewer police officers to stop them? You might be the one with a questionable worldview here, not the author.

julienb_sea 6y ago

The article calls out multiple thefts, i.e. economically motivated crimes of opportunity. Classifying this as a hate crime justifies shifting blame and focus away from means of preventing and prosecuting crimes of opportunity.

ratsmack 6y ago
Attacking the weak and elderly is a pretty hateful thing to do.
- xboxnolifes 6y ago
  Hate has nothing to do with it if it's economically motivated.
  - ratsmack 6y ago
    Calling it "economically motivated" diminish the heinous act of mugging and theft, which is predatory and driven from greed and wanton disregard for others rights and property.
- runsWphotons 6y ago
  @xboxnolifes. As I posted elsewhere, watch this and tell me if it looks "economically motivated". Even in the cases where this violence is "economically motivated", does that mean hate isn't a factor? So as long as I steal some money nothing is a hate crime? (I don't really know what I think of the category "hate crime", but if we are going to have them it seems the rules should be elucidated). https://abc7news.com/san-francisco-senior-attacked-sf-man-pushed-on-video-day-time-attack-caught-anza-vista-crime/10205928/ https://abc7news.com/san-francisco-senior-attacked-sf-man-pu... [edit for clarity: Not a fan of jumping to call things "hate crimes". Also not a fan of trying to caste a mitigating aura on violent crime by saying it is all "economically motivated", especially when that is not true of all these crimes. Double plus fan of police enforcing the law and keeping violent people locked away.]

runsWphotons 6y ago

You honestly think reduced police presence has no effect? If you put that in context with race-based rhetoric characterising Asians as part of "white supremacy", it makes as much sense as the other thing. How about a third hypothesis: this idea went viral and people figure they can get away with it now. Or a fourth: the people doing this probably should already have been in jail in many cases.

brokencode 6y ago
Because people think they can get away with it now? You think people are sitting around waiting for the day they can get away with seriously injuring a senior citizen? I think this is about xenophobia and hatred towards China as a source of the coronavirus, amplified by the former president’s rhetoric about the “kung-flu” or “China virus” as he repeatedly called it.
- runsWphotons 6y ago
  As a matter of fact, some people do wait around for moments when they can get away with violent crime. I've met them and this is how some people think (maybe even most violent people are this way). During one weekend of the protests in Chicago this summer, there was a weekend with over 20 murders, which happened partly because people knew all the police were downtown and it was a good moment to settle scores (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52984535 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52984535). I agree with you this could have something to do with the rhetoric you mention, just as well as other political rhetoric. It could also just have to do with virality, the impression of lawlessness/lack of repercussions, the "fun" of being violent, and people in public who shouldn't be. In the end, if you shoot a woman in the head with a flare gun, I'm not too concerned whether you claim you did it because "of the president's rhetoric", "to fight white/asian supremacy", or "to steal her pocketbook for economic motivations". I'm more concerned that the police arrest you and the government locks you up until you know better. Anything else looks like more deflection of responsibility to me.
- mc32 6y ago
  A while ago, in my youth, I worked longside guys who had been let out. Yes, they do seek weaknesses and they know what they are. They know the vulnerable population and the population that does not fight. Example, they would hit richer folks for certain things because they would not get chased as they would more than likely have insurance. They had many stories to tell. They go to SF and they avoid DC (San Mateo Co.). It's not xenophobia or wealthphobia or whatnotphobia. No it's easyphilia.

rednerrus 6y ago

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/2/13/18193661/hire-police-officers-crime-criminal-justice-reform-booker-harris https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/2/13/18193661/h... I tend to turn to this article and the studies cited when discussing police as crime deterrent. What evidence is driving your ideas on the subject?

brokencode 6y ago
I’m not saying police aren’t a crime deterrent, and I don’t support the idea of defunding or vilifying the police as a whole. I do support common-sense reforms to reduce the use of force and make police more accountable, though. I’m saying that it takes a very sick and twisted state of mind to commit violence towards the elderly like this, and it isn’t “normal” crime. It takes real hatred and rage to do something like this.