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I don't understand this argument. People are extremely good at inventing purposes for themselves within their context. If you give people a livable but meager a

I don't understand this argument. People are extremely good at inventing purposes for themselves within their context. If you give people a livable but meager amount of money it's true some people will fritter their life away for a while. But a significant portion of the people on UBI will invent a niche for themselves. The ennui itself is a motivator for people to find something useful to do. The reason people have a problem with UBI is that we have a tendency to equate our moral- or self-worth with our economic productivity. If you don't draw a salary for services rendered it seems like you're not worth anything. There are tons of occupations people can have that generate no significant monetary value. Volunteering and taking care of children are two such occupations. These both have tons of value to society. So it's clear to me that economic output is not the only source of value. Maybe it's time for society to recognize the value of those non-economic occupations by paying people for them?

beaconstudios 6y ago
> People are extremely good at inventing purposes for themselves within their context /some/ people are. I grew up with a good number of people whose families were trapped in this kind of an ennui and it honestly seemed like death in slow motion. Why do you think daytime TV is so popular? There's plenty of people who are already out there on benefits who are unemployed and haven't become artists or volunteers. > a significant portion of the people on UBI will invent a niche for themselves. I'm not worried about the creative types that can do this. I worry about those who can't. Meaninglessness is pretty wearing on the soul. > The reason people have a problem with UBI is that we have a tendency to equate our moral- or self-worth with our economic productivity. That's a very American thing. I'm from the UK and, outside of maybe London, the protestant work ethic is not as significant. > Maybe it's time for society to recognize the value of those non-economic occupations by paying people for them? I'm all for that, but how do we categorically make "society" value these things? You can hope that the norm shifts to doing things like this post-UBI, but I'm not quite so optimistic. I've seen what long term unemployment with no prospects can do to people.
- shawnz 6y ago
  > I'm not worried about the creative types that can do this. I worry about those who can't. Meaninglessness is pretty wearing on the soul. Is it better those people are forced to work in unskilled labour, like now? Even with UBI, they could still voluntarily subject themselves to unskilled labour if they felt it quenched feelings of meaninglessness.

beaconstudios 6y ago

> People are extremely good at inventing purposes for themselves within their context /some/ people are. I grew up with a good number of people whose families were trapped in this kind of an ennui and it honestly seemed like death in slow motion. Why do you think daytime TV is so popular? There's plenty of people who are already out there on benefits who are unemployed and haven't become artists or volunteers. > a significant portion of the people on UBI will invent a niche for themselves. I'm not worried about the creative types that can do this. I worry about those who can't. Meaninglessness is pretty wearing on the soul. > The reason people have a problem with UBI is that we have a tendency to equate our moral- or self-worth with our economic productivity. That's a very American thing. I'm from the UK and, outside of maybe London, the protestant work ethic is not as significant. > Maybe it's time for society to recognize the value of those non-economic occupations by paying people for them? I'm all for that, but how do we categorically make "society" value these things? You can hope that the norm shifts to doing things like this post-UBI, but I'm not quite so optimistic. I've seen what long term unemployment with no prospects can do to people.

shawnz 6y ago
> I'm not worried about the creative types that can do this. I worry about those who can't. Meaninglessness is pretty wearing on the soul. Is it better those people are forced to work in unskilled labour, like now? Even with UBI, they could still voluntarily subject themselves to unskilled labour if they felt it quenched feelings of meaninglessness.