5 ms·

this is a good point, but is this true though? Assuming it costs $10000 per person/yr If we can agree that 80% of society has their needs met, then if we give

this is a good point, but is this true though? Assuming it costs $10000 per person/yr If we can agree that 80% of society has their needs met, then if we give to all, we now have an additional 4 times of the overall outlay. I dont think the cost of administration would be so much, and if so, we should aim to cut down those as much as possible, I also pulled out that 80% number. As this goes down to 50%, then the argument is easier made that the administrative cost is now equal to the cost of funds we could have just given away.

samatman 6y ago
This misses what is probably the more important point, which is that any system which tries to measure who has their needs met is going to screw up. People won't fill out the paperwork, they'll check the wrong box, the papers will get lost, the wrong flag will be entered on the database, they won't fulfill the criteria on paper but still really need the help: people in need fall through the cracks all the time. Also, great care needs to be taken with welfare to avoid income traps. It's easy to set up a system where working more means you lose money, and that's hard to get out of. This remains a problem with US welfare and disability payments. With a UBI, it's simple: do they know who you are, and have you been paid yet. And the people who have enough are generally easy to find, and have, let's say, a preexisting relationship with the IRS. It's easy enough to tax the UBI back from them, and it would be comforting, if and when they unexpectedly lose their job, to know that a check will be arriving. One less thing to think about. I have some reservations about UBI, but I'm familiar with the case for it, which I'm conveying here without a full endorsement.
- dfgdghdf 6y ago
  Exactly this. In the UK we have "universal credit", which is a guaranteed payment for people out of work. In practice, claiming this can be so difficult that many must turn to food banks and private charities before they receive their payments.
- ModernMech 6y ago
  I like to say that our current welfare system is a safety net, and like all nets it has holes in it through which people fall. UBI is more like a safety blanket, which will catch anyone who falls into it.
- foolinaround 6y ago
  if I understood you right, all 100 of us get the $10000, then the 80 of us who file with the IRS gets taxed back for that 10k, so in sum, only 20 X 10000 = 200K get spent. I can get behind this.

samatman 6y ago

This misses what is probably the more important point, which is that any system which tries to measure who has their needs met is going to screw up. People won't fill out the paperwork, they'll check the wrong box, the papers will get lost, the wrong flag will be entered on the database, they won't fulfill the criteria on paper but still really need the help: people in need fall through the cracks all the time. Also, great care needs to be taken with welfare to avoid income traps. It's easy to set up a system where working more means you lose money, and that's hard to get out of. This remains a problem with US welfare and disability payments. With a UBI, it's simple: do they know who you are, and have you been paid yet. And the people who have enough are generally easy to find, and have, let's say, a preexisting relationship with the IRS. It's easy enough to tax the UBI back from them, and it would be comforting, if and when they unexpectedly lose their job, to know that a check will be arriving. One less thing to think about. I have some reservations about UBI, but I'm familiar with the case for it, which I'm conveying here without a full endorsement.

dfgdghdf 6y ago
Exactly this. In the UK we have "universal credit", which is a guaranteed payment for people out of work. In practice, claiming this can be so difficult that many must turn to food banks and private charities before they receive their payments.
ModernMech 6y ago
I like to say that our current welfare system is a safety net, and like all nets it has holes in it through which people fall. UBI is more like a safety blanket, which will catch anyone who falls into it.
foolinaround 6y ago
if I understood you right, all 100 of us get the $10000, then the 80 of us who file with the IRS gets taxed back for that 10k, so in sum, only 20 X 10000 = 200K get spent. I can get behind this.