5 ms·

Mouth and gut health are directly related to physical health AND mental health. The gut is often called the second brain, and lots of mental health issues like

Mouth and gut health are directly related to physical health AND mental health. The gut is often called the second brain, and lots of mental health issues like anxiety, depression, stress, etc can be greatly helped by improving diet and healthy gut. It’s criminal that medical establishments are controlled by pharmaceutical companies and establishment media spreads prescription drug propaganda. Everyone needs to do their own research about gut health and direct impacts to physical and mental health.

tomrod 6y ago
> The gut is often called the second brain, and lots of mental health issues like anxiety, depression, stress, etc can be greatly helped by improving diet and healthy gut. Who calls it that? I've seen a comment or two before, but certainly not "everyone" calling it that. It's a nice analogy that probably could be stretched way too far, as these things go. Are the causal links clearly _known_ or correlation shows that the link may be identifiable? > It’s criminal that medical establishments are controlled by pharmaceutical companies and establishment media spreads prescription drug propaganda. Hmm... this sounds like conspiratorial thinking. Do you have evidence of this, and if it is the case, a reason why this status quo is worse than other alternatives? > Everyone needs to do their own research about gut health and direct impacts to physical and mental health. Why? Wouldn't it be more reasonable for scientists to research, work towards consensus, then report findings, rather than duplicating the fixed costs of setting up laboratories and health testing facilities in our garages? Considering I did this, what is the likelihood I find a stronger connection or novel fact about certain microbiota that inhabit my or my families' bodies? Or perhaps you're being less precise in your terminology, and you're advocating that people study scientists' research rather than conducting wetlab studies. Could you clarify? Analogously, we should also all study the universe, but few advocate for all to build radio telescopes on their available rooftops.
- mrzimmerman 6y ago
  I don’t have anything to add to this brilliant response but I’d like to say how much I appreciate it.
  - wwww4all 6y ago
    I’m curious as to why you think it’s brilliant response? Was it the lack of initiative to do simple google search on gut brain physiological connections? The common phrases gut feeling, gut check, gut intuition are related to the gut brain connection. Was it the lack of insight into the hundreds of billions of dollars spent on prescription drug propaganda? Google how pharma company marketed Oxicontin, which was huge part of opioid addiction crisis. Was it the lack of clarity in the scientific community reproducibility crisis? Especially in the drug development fields, where Big Pharma has big incentives to push through dangerous drugs on people? Please Google prescription drug called Vioxx.
    - mandis 6y ago
      Programming and software fields are full of people with steep disregard for culturally established theories and truisms. Until some VC backed tech company builds a product around a 1000+ year old theory, it seems to hold no water in this community.
- chiefalchemist 6y ago
  > Hmm... this sounds like conspiratorial thinking. Does it? Why so? There are a handful of entities with control and they all tend to have the same mindset. There's no need for a conspiracy. Their context and objectives are the same. There are a limited number of paths to that goal. They will - like starlings - naturally "sync." No conspiracy necessary. The fact of the matter is, more and more "traditional medicine" that was long dismissed is proving to be healthy. The use of hallucinogens to treat mental health come to mind. How does Big Pharma deliver value to share holders with plants that most anyone to grow? Editorial: You sound naive, and likely a Big Pharma employee.
  - p1necone 6y ago
    Deciding that people who disagree with you must be "big pharma" employees and denying conspiratorial thinking in the same post... Wow
    - chiefalchemist 6y ago
      First, they are not the same and/or connected. Correlation, not cause. More importantly, I clearly explained that conspiracy is not at all necessary for like-minded like-goaled entities to act in concert. You're unfortunately parroting conventional wisdom about such things, and that's a weak argument. It heavy handed and a false assumption. Yes, there's actual science behind such phenomenon. murmurations - https://animals.howstuffworks.com/birds/starling-murmurations.htm https://animals.howstuffworks.com/birds/starling-murmuration...
  - tomrod 6y ago
    > You [are]... likely a Big Pharma employee. It'd be nice to make big Pharma wages, and even better to make big Pharma profits, but alas I am a simple, dedicated data scientist working with a non-profit. > They will - like starlings - naturally "sync." Unfortunately, such claims fail Hitchen's razor. Have you read Sagan's "Demon Haunted World", by chance? If not, I highly recommend it. There is no need to project a metaphorical substrate on reality -- sometimes things simply don't require shadowy entities running things from the shadow. I say this as I eat a nice slice of pizza on a Friday evening, with a cold beer on my coffee table and a movie running while I puzzle over figuring out SQL Server and podman/docker container max sizes. I have shadows in the room, but I am confident no one hides there. > You sound naive This is certainly true. There are a huge universe things I wish to learn more about before concluding I am a powerless peon. EDIT: I have figured out my podman issue, and --ulimit=host and --security-opt label=disable are now committed to at least my short-term memory.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- bilegeek 6y ago
  >Who calls it that? It comes from some studies[1] that show a large number of neurons in the gut which control subsystems, which number about as much as a cat brain. This is interesting and makes things more complicated than initially thought, but is a bit apples to oranges; just having as many neurons as a cat brain doesn't mean they operate like you hacked a brain into your gut. Spitballing here, but this probably started as an analogy to show the number of neurons, and people started thinking it was an actual brain. [1]https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/wellness-and-prevention/the-brain-gut-connection https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/wellness-and-preventi... (Maybe not the best source, but google "human gut cat brain" and you'll see this view all over the place.)
  - tomrod 6y ago
    Makes sense. So the neurons themselves are not an analogy, but their operational status perhaps is. I appreciate you humoring me.
- hutzlibu 6y ago
  "Analogously, we should also all study the universe, but few advocate for all to build radio telescopes on their available rooftops. " But the conditions of the stars are not linked to our well being (unless you are into astrology). But the condition of our gut microbiome is. I simply read the comment as a urge to investigate about your own biome. What works and what helps you individually, with the methods you have avaiable. Like checking what you eat, your medicines ... and how that affects your well being. Good indicator for health is .. a good shit so to say. But yeah, if you have a lab avaiable, or know a competent one, why not also professionally investigate your digestion outcome.
  - tomrod 6y ago
    Perhaps you missed the big pharma conspiracy.
    - hutzlibu 6y ago
      I ignored that part mostly ... But that big pharma does things, that strenghten peoples believe in conspiracy is sadly not far off: For example about Sanofi, a french pharma company. On the german Wiki page is a section criticsm, stating various bad things, like not telling about side effects of drugs and trying to suppress that knowledge in various cases and testing in poor countries with lax standards, etc. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanofi#Kritik https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanofi#Kritik (one english link: https://techcrunch.com/2015/04/14/big-pharma-small-startup https://techcrunch.com/2015/04/14/big-pharma-small-startup) But nothing to be seen on the english version for example. And I heard countless other stories, of which most were surely crackpot realm, but not at all everything, so I am also not really a fan of big pharma.

tomrod 6y ago

> The gut is often called the second brain, and lots of mental health issues like anxiety, depression, stress, etc can be greatly helped by improving diet and healthy gut. Who calls it that? I've seen a comment or two before, but certainly not "everyone" calling it that. It's a nice analogy that probably could be stretched way too far, as these things go. Are the causal links clearly _known_ or correlation shows that the link may be identifiable? > It’s criminal that medical establishments are controlled by pharmaceutical companies and establishment media spreads prescription drug propaganda. Hmm... this sounds like conspiratorial thinking. Do you have evidence of this, and if it is the case, a reason why this status quo is worse than other alternatives? > Everyone needs to do their own research about gut health and direct impacts to physical and mental health. Why? Wouldn't it be more reasonable for scientists to research, work towards consensus, then report findings, rather than duplicating the fixed costs of setting up laboratories and health testing facilities in our garages? Considering I did this, what is the likelihood I find a stronger connection or novel fact about certain microbiota that inhabit my or my families' bodies? Or perhaps you're being less precise in your terminology, and you're advocating that people study scientists' research rather than conducting wetlab studies. Could you clarify? Analogously, we should also all study the universe, but few advocate for all to build radio telescopes on their available rooftops.

mrzimmerman 6y ago
I don’t have anything to add to this brilliant response but I’d like to say how much I appreciate it.
- wwww4all 6y ago
  I’m curious as to why you think it’s brilliant response? Was it the lack of initiative to do simple google search on gut brain physiological connections? The common phrases gut feeling, gut check, gut intuition are related to the gut brain connection. Was it the lack of insight into the hundreds of billions of dollars spent on prescription drug propaganda? Google how pharma company marketed Oxicontin, which was huge part of opioid addiction crisis. Was it the lack of clarity in the scientific community reproducibility crisis? Especially in the drug development fields, where Big Pharma has big incentives to push through dangerous drugs on people? Please Google prescription drug called Vioxx.
  - mandis 6y ago
    Programming and software fields are full of people with steep disregard for culturally established theories and truisms. Until some VC backed tech company builds a product around a 1000+ year old theory, it seems to hold no water in this community.
chiefalchemist 6y ago
> Hmm... this sounds like conspiratorial thinking. Does it? Why so? There are a handful of entities with control and they all tend to have the same mindset. There's no need for a conspiracy. Their context and objectives are the same. There are a limited number of paths to that goal. They will - like starlings - naturally "sync." No conspiracy necessary. The fact of the matter is, more and more "traditional medicine" that was long dismissed is proving to be healthy. The use of hallucinogens to treat mental health come to mind. How does Big Pharma deliver value to share holders with plants that most anyone to grow? Editorial: You sound naive, and likely a Big Pharma employee.
- p1necone 6y ago
  Deciding that people who disagree with you must be "big pharma" employees and denying conspiratorial thinking in the same post... Wow
  - chiefalchemist 6y ago
    First, they are not the same and/or connected. Correlation, not cause. More importantly, I clearly explained that conspiracy is not at all necessary for like-minded like-goaled entities to act in concert. You're unfortunately parroting conventional wisdom about such things, and that's a weak argument. It heavy handed and a false assumption. Yes, there's actual science behind such phenomenon. murmurations - https://animals.howstuffworks.com/birds/starling-murmurations.htm https://animals.howstuffworks.com/birds/starling-murmuration...
- tomrod 6y ago
  > You [are]... likely a Big Pharma employee. It'd be nice to make big Pharma wages, and even better to make big Pharma profits, but alas I am a simple, dedicated data scientist working with a non-profit. > They will - like starlings - naturally "sync." Unfortunately, such claims fail Hitchen's razor. Have you read Sagan's "Demon Haunted World", by chance? If not, I highly recommend it. There is no need to project a metaphorical substrate on reality -- sometimes things simply don't require shadowy entities running things from the shadow. I say this as I eat a nice slice of pizza on a Friday evening, with a cold beer on my coffee table and a movie running while I puzzle over figuring out SQL Server and podman/docker container max sizes. I have shadows in the room, but I am confident no one hides there. > You sound naive This is certainly true. There are a huge universe things I wish to learn more about before concluding I am a powerless peon. EDIT: I have figured out my podman issue, and --ulimit=host and --security-opt label=disable are now committed to at least my short-term memory.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
bilegeek 6y ago
>Who calls it that? It comes from some studies[1] that show a large number of neurons in the gut which control subsystems, which number about as much as a cat brain. This is interesting and makes things more complicated than initially thought, but is a bit apples to oranges; just having as many neurons as a cat brain doesn't mean they operate like you hacked a brain into your gut. Spitballing here, but this probably started as an analogy to show the number of neurons, and people started thinking it was an actual brain. [1]https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/wellness-and-prevention/the-brain-gut-connection https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/wellness-and-preventi... (Maybe not the best source, but google "human gut cat brain" and you'll see this view all over the place.)
- tomrod 6y ago
  Makes sense. So the neurons themselves are not an analogy, but their operational status perhaps is. I appreciate you humoring me.
hutzlibu 6y ago
"Analogously, we should also all study the universe, but few advocate for all to build radio telescopes on their available rooftops. " But the conditions of the stars are not linked to our well being (unless you are into astrology). But the condition of our gut microbiome is. I simply read the comment as a urge to investigate about your own biome. What works and what helps you individually, with the methods you have avaiable. Like checking what you eat, your medicines ... and how that affects your well being. Good indicator for health is .. a good shit so to say. But yeah, if you have a lab avaiable, or know a competent one, why not also professionally investigate your digestion outcome.
- tomrod 6y ago
  Perhaps you missed the big pharma conspiracy.
  - hutzlibu 6y ago
    I ignored that part mostly ... But that big pharma does things, that strenghten peoples believe in conspiracy is sadly not far off: For example about Sanofi, a french pharma company. On the german Wiki page is a section criticsm, stating various bad things, like not telling about side effects of drugs and trying to suppress that knowledge in various cases and testing in poor countries with lax standards, etc. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanofi#Kritik https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanofi#Kritik (one english link: https://techcrunch.com/2015/04/14/big-pharma-small-startup https://techcrunch.com/2015/04/14/big-pharma-small-startup) But nothing to be seen on the english version for example. And I heard countless other stories, of which most were surely crackpot realm, but not at all everything, so I am also not really a fan of big pharma.