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> Swift lets you write code that's as concise as Python while still being fast, > (TensorFlow is actually mostly C++, which makes it difficult for a Python dev

by ljm 6y ago

> Swift lets you write code that's as concise as Python while still being fast, > (TensorFlow is actually mostly C++, which makes it difficult for a Python developer to debug.) To be honest, if I had to choose between Python and Swift I'd still choose Python. Swift is a nice evolution from Obj-C and all but it is nowhere near as simple as Python, or Ruby, or PHP, or Javascript, or Kotlin. And Apple's documentation of these things is pretty woeful at the best of times lately. I also disagree with the pitch, is what I'm saying.

aplummer 6y ago
To say that Swift is "nowhere near as simple" as Javascript or Kotlin is a very strange opinion to me, and I have experience with all 3. Simple as in syntax, memory management, or in what regard? I can't think of a single example where Swift is not equivalent or better. Do you have the same criticism of Scala?
- ljm 6y ago
  I do. Scala is insanely complicated once you inherit a codebase full of implicits and custom operators.
  - aplummer 6y ago
    If misuse of a language feature is a criticism of the language, I have bad news about javascript.
    - saagarjha 6y ago
      Scala seems to encourage misuse :(
- The_rationalist 6y ago
  Swift has no traced garbage collector which means you cannot represent circular data structure/references. Also swift support for interfaces (protocol) is sub-par with today standards
  - andrekandre 6y ago
    > Also swift support for interfaces (protocol) is sub-par with today standards interesting, what could be added/changed to make it better?
    - The_rationalist 6y ago
      No support for default implementation methods. No support for generics in protocol. There might be workarounds but for a newcomer, this is a red flag of reinventing a basic and universal construct (interfaces) in a sub-par one, this show a dangerous mentality from the swift vm devs, what else did they wrongfully reinvent in a sub-par way?
      - liuliu 6y ago
        There is support for default implementation method in protocol for a while now. Generics are supported through associated types.
      - aplummer 6y ago
        As the other commenter pointed out, default implementations (with genetic constraints!) are supported, they actually my favourite swift feature.
skohan 6y ago
I think considering swift as merely an evolution of obj-c is a drastic underestimation. Swift is a very nice language in its own right. Having spent time with most of the languages you've mentioned, while the learning curve might be a bit steeper, I think Swift is much easier to manage a medium or large project with than any of those options with the exception of maybe Kotlin, and personally I find some of the design choices a bit better in Swift than in Kotlin.

by ljm 6y ago

aplummer 6y ago

To say that Swift is "nowhere near as simple" as Javascript or Kotlin is a very strange opinion to me, and I have experience with all 3. Simple as in syntax, memory management, or in what regard? I can't think of a single example where Swift is not equivalent or better. Do you have the same criticism of Scala?

ljm 6y ago
I do. Scala is insanely complicated once you inherit a codebase full of implicits and custom operators.
- aplummer 6y ago
  If misuse of a language feature is a criticism of the language, I have bad news about javascript.
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    Scala seems to encourage misuse :(
The_rationalist 6y ago
Swift has no traced garbage collector which means you cannot represent circular data structure/references. Also swift support for interfaces (protocol) is sub-par with today standards
- andrekandre 6y ago
  > Also swift support for interfaces (protocol) is sub-par with today standards interesting, what could be added/changed to make it better?
  - The_rationalist 6y ago
    No support for default implementation methods. No support for generics in protocol. There might be workarounds but for a newcomer, this is a red flag of reinventing a basic and universal construct (interfaces) in a sub-par one, this show a dangerous mentality from the swift vm devs, what else did they wrongfully reinvent in a sub-par way?
    - liuliu 6y ago
      There is support for default implementation method in protocol for a while now. Generics are supported through associated types.
    - aplummer 6y ago
      As the other commenter pointed out, default implementations (with genetic constraints!) are supported, they actually my favourite swift feature.

skohan 6y ago

I think considering swift as merely an evolution of obj-c is a drastic underestimation. Swift is a very nice language in its own right. Having spent time with most of the languages you've mentioned, while the learning curve might be a bit steeper, I think Swift is much easier to manage a medium or large project with than any of those options with the exception of maybe Kotlin, and personally I find some of the design choices a bit better in Swift than in Kotlin.