4 ms·

I'm considering a few hundred acres of mountainous clearcut land in the pacific northwest. Are there any resources you'd recommend to learn about replanting non

by _qwfv 6y ago

I'm considering a few hundred acres of mountainous clearcut land in the pacific northwest. Are there any resources you'd recommend to learn about replanting non-urban areas?

jointpdf 6y ago
The best option might be to get in touch with your local university forestry extension, for example: https://forestry.wsu.edu/ https://forestry.wsu.edu/ Another resource would be your local USDA office. The NRCS should be available to provide free site-specific technical assistance (e.g. for soil regeneration and conservation planning). There are also zillions of loan/grant/easement/conservation payment programs that the USDA runs: https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/wps/portal/nrcs/main/national/programs/technical/tsp/ https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/wps/portal/nrcs/main/national/prog...
- reportingsjr 6y ago
  Beware that the USDA will typically not provide good advice if you aren't planning on using land for resources like harvesting lumber/crops/animal husbandry. If you want to restore a local ecosystem you'll need to reach out to another organization, probably an NGO, to figure out how to proceed in a reasonable manner. The biggest group that would probably help would be the Nature Conservancy.
  - iammiles 6y ago
    I'll second talking to a local nonprofit over the USDA or USFS. At least in the PNW, these agencies are focused on extracting value from the land and their replantings are tightly-packed monocultures designed to be harvested again. They have about as much in common with a forest as a golf course has with a prairie.
    - Ericson2314 6y ago
      All the stories I hear add up to the USDA basically being pound-for-pound the worst federal agency. (DoD is bad, but so much bigger, and has redeeming bits like DARPA. I don't know of any redeeming bits in USDA off hand.)
    - jointpdf 6y ago
      I was going to add that consulting a nonprofit (like the Nature Conservancy) would be a good idea as well. But why either or? If I were undertaking a project as large as reforesting several hundred acres of land, I’d want to consult as many sources as possible. USDA has field offices in almost every county, not to mention loan (including easy-to-qualify-for microloans of <$50K) and payment programs to help with capital and expenses. Genuine question—are “tightly-packed monocultures” that are recurrently harvested optimal (from a carbon removal perspective) under some conditions? Similarly, if you inherit a mature forest, is it optimal to harvest some portion of it so that new trees can absorb carbon?
      - iammiles 6y ago
        Certainly! After rereading my comment I can see how it comes off as unduly harsh on the aforementioned federal agencies. However given the context of the article and the question of replanting a clearcut in the PNW, I'm guessing the intent is to create a forest with a sustainable and vibrant ecosystem. That intent puts it at odds of the forestry practices that favors harvesting trees for economic value. There's certainly a need for timber in modern society, but the way that's achieved doesn't create a forest or an environment that fosters a well-balanced ecological system.
  - gdubs 6y ago
    So, NRCS is a division of the USDA focused heavily on conservation. I know this from experience because we have some of our land in a conservation program through NRCS, and they’re super knowledgeable about native ecosystems.
- martincolorado 6y ago
  I'm curious as to why you decided to look into purchasing a clearcut in order to better understand if this is popular amongst a demographic such as tech workers with growing wealth--is there a market for this specifically in consulting forestry with a tech focus. Check out the Society of American Foresters if you want to pay for a forest management plan. Or as noted try the local forestry extension and the Forest Service's State and Private Forestry contacts. https://www.eforester.org/Main/Certification_Education/Certified_Forester/Find_a_Certified_Professional/Main/Certification/Find_a_Certified_Professional.aspx?hkey=b4fe4aa3-20ae-40a4-80de-1b91e41b14e6 https://www.eforester.org/Main/Certification_Education/Certi... https://www.forestry.oregonstate.edu/forestry-and-natural-resources https://www.forestry.oregonstate.edu/forestry-and-natural-re... https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/r6/communityforests/?cid=fsbdev2_026873 https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/r6/communityforests/?cid=fsbd...
  - _qwfv 6y ago
    Because the ratio of land to cost was better. And because right now Weyerhaueser owns a ton of timberland up here but won't part with it until after they've harvested it. In my mind, returning some land to natural forest and placing a small spot to go camping or hiking through it would be an incredible gift to future generations.
    - shmageggy 6y ago
      This is something I have in mind for the future as well, although it’s a little ways off financially. I wonder if there are organizations that coordinate these sorts of things, aiming for contiguous areas for example.
      - Pfhreak 6y ago
        There are, but I think they typically serve as clearinghouses that acquire land and then hand it to the federal government. I think it's less common to find individuals buying up plots to conserve them.
- gdubs 6y ago
  +1 to the NRCS route. We went through them for our oak woodland and upland prairie restoration projects, and they have been really great to work with. They care a lot about the environment and have a lot of knowledge.
- Pfhreak 6y ago
  Thanks, great resources!
seltzered_ 6y ago
Probably depends on where you are specfically - whether it's west/east of the cascades, etc.. If in the mid-north area of Cascadia consider resources like https://salishsearestoration.org/ https://salishsearestoration.org/ ( https://salishsearestoration.org/wiki/Human_systems https://salishsearestoration.org/wiki/Human_systems references organizations/resources) , https://ecosystemguild.org https://ecosystemguild.org (trying to do a different kind of 'restoration camping' model), https://westernforestry.org/ https://westernforestry.org/ (they had a good recent webinar series: https://westernforestry.org/upcoming-conferences/2020-empowering-tribal-culture-ecology-and-food-systems-webinar-series-free https://westernforestry.org/upcoming-conferences/2020-empowe... ). Inland northwest? I don't know, https://inlandfoodwise.online https://inlandfoodwise.online folks may have pointers. Consider the aspects of both social and ecological restoration, land acknowledgement, land 'ownership'. If you're doing non-urban areas and attempting housing, think about the different framings of Wildlife Urban Interface (WUI). Note excerpt: " See also [[Millán Millán]] paper Greening and Browning in a Climate Change Hotspot: The Mediterranean Basin which delves into this too. interesting paper, talks about wildlife-urban interface (reminded me of https://www.pnas.org/content/115/13/3314 from https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/30/opinion/sunday/california-fires.html ) but notably the urban population living near it... "This is occurring in an area where human population is increasing—especially the urban population (i.e., people not living from the land) in the wildland–urban interface (Modugno et al. 2016)." main reaction is that I/we need to be trained to go through that transformation in living with land."
- Pfhreak 6y ago
  This is incredibly useful. It's just east of Steven's Pass.
  - redisman 6y ago
    A good place to source trees is “Go Natives” in Richmond Beach. I went there this summer and they had hundreds of cedars and a great selection of native plants of all kinds.
redisman 6y ago
I’ve been thinking about something similar one day. Buy a tract of land and just let it return to its native form with some help from me. Are there any obvious legal or financial pitfalls or hints you’ve gathered?
- Pfhreak 6y ago
  Mineral rights might be sold independently from land rights, meaning someone could come mine the land you are fostering. You can get cheap seedlings from the state, and depending on the land you might be able to get financial assistance with preparing the land. Everything is slow. Timber companies are slow, forest service is slow, etc.

by _qwfv 6y ago

I'm considering a few hundred acres of mountainous clearcut land in the pacific northwest. Are there any resources you'd recommend to learn about replanting non-urban areas?

jointpdf 6y ago

The best option might be to get in touch with your local university forestry extension, for example: https://forestry.wsu.edu/ https://forestry.wsu.edu/ Another resource would be your local USDA office. The NRCS should be available to provide free site-specific technical assistance (e.g. for soil regeneration and conservation planning). There are also zillions of loan/grant/easement/conservation payment programs that the USDA runs: https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/wps/portal/nrcs/main/national/programs/technical/tsp/ https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/wps/portal/nrcs/main/national/prog...

reportingsjr 6y ago
Beware that the USDA will typically not provide good advice if you aren't planning on using land for resources like harvesting lumber/crops/animal husbandry. If you want to restore a local ecosystem you'll need to reach out to another organization, probably an NGO, to figure out how to proceed in a reasonable manner. The biggest group that would probably help would be the Nature Conservancy.
- iammiles 6y ago
  I'll second talking to a local nonprofit over the USDA or USFS. At least in the PNW, these agencies are focused on extracting value from the land and their replantings are tightly-packed monocultures designed to be harvested again. They have about as much in common with a forest as a golf course has with a prairie.
  - Ericson2314 6y ago
    All the stories I hear add up to the USDA basically being pound-for-pound the worst federal agency. (DoD is bad, but so much bigger, and has redeeming bits like DARPA. I don't know of any redeeming bits in USDA off hand.)
  - jointpdf 6y ago
    I was going to add that consulting a nonprofit (like the Nature Conservancy) would be a good idea as well. But why either or? If I were undertaking a project as large as reforesting several hundred acres of land, I’d want to consult as many sources as possible. USDA has field offices in almost every county, not to mention loan (including easy-to-qualify-for microloans of <$50K) and payment programs to help with capital and expenses. Genuine question—are “tightly-packed monocultures” that are recurrently harvested optimal (from a carbon removal perspective) under some conditions? Similarly, if you inherit a mature forest, is it optimal to harvest some portion of it so that new trees can absorb carbon?
    - iammiles 6y ago
      Certainly! After rereading my comment I can see how it comes off as unduly harsh on the aforementioned federal agencies. However given the context of the article and the question of replanting a clearcut in the PNW, I'm guessing the intent is to create a forest with a sustainable and vibrant ecosystem. That intent puts it at odds of the forestry practices that favors harvesting trees for economic value. There's certainly a need for timber in modern society, but the way that's achieved doesn't create a forest or an environment that fosters a well-balanced ecological system.
- gdubs 6y ago
  So, NRCS is a division of the USDA focused heavily on conservation. I know this from experience because we have some of our land in a conservation program through NRCS, and they’re super knowledgeable about native ecosystems.
martincolorado 6y ago
I'm curious as to why you decided to look into purchasing a clearcut in order to better understand if this is popular amongst a demographic such as tech workers with growing wealth--is there a market for this specifically in consulting forestry with a tech focus. Check out the Society of American Foresters if you want to pay for a forest management plan. Or as noted try the local forestry extension and the Forest Service's State and Private Forestry contacts. https://www.eforester.org/Main/Certification_Education/Certified_Forester/Find_a_Certified_Professional/Main/Certification/Find_a_Certified_Professional.aspx?hkey=b4fe4aa3-20ae-40a4-80de-1b91e41b14e6 https://www.eforester.org/Main/Certification_Education/Certi... https://www.forestry.oregonstate.edu/forestry-and-natural-resources https://www.forestry.oregonstate.edu/forestry-and-natural-re... https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/r6/communityforests/?cid=fsbdev2_026873 https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/r6/communityforests/?cid=fsbd...
- _qwfv 6y ago
  Because the ratio of land to cost was better. And because right now Weyerhaueser owns a ton of timberland up here but won't part with it until after they've harvested it. In my mind, returning some land to natural forest and placing a small spot to go camping or hiking through it would be an incredible gift to future generations.
  - shmageggy 6y ago
    This is something I have in mind for the future as well, although it’s a little ways off financially. I wonder if there are organizations that coordinate these sorts of things, aiming for contiguous areas for example.
    - Pfhreak 6y ago
      There are, but I think they typically serve as clearinghouses that acquire land and then hand it to the federal government. I think it's less common to find individuals buying up plots to conserve them.
gdubs 6y ago
+1 to the NRCS route. We went through them for our oak woodland and upland prairie restoration projects, and they have been really great to work with. They care a lot about the environment and have a lot of knowledge.
Pfhreak 6y ago
Thanks, great resources!

seltzered_ 6y ago

Probably depends on where you are specfically - whether it's west/east of the cascades, etc.. If in the mid-north area of Cascadia consider resources like https://salishsearestoration.org/ https://salishsearestoration.org/ ( https://salishsearestoration.org/wiki/Human_systems https://salishsearestoration.org/wiki/Human_systems references organizations/resources) , https://ecosystemguild.org https://ecosystemguild.org (trying to do a different kind of 'restoration camping' model), https://westernforestry.org/ https://westernforestry.org/ (they had a good recent webinar series: https://westernforestry.org/upcoming-conferences/2020-empowering-tribal-culture-ecology-and-food-systems-webinar-series-free https://westernforestry.org/upcoming-conferences/2020-empowe... ). Inland northwest? I don't know, https://inlandfoodwise.online https://inlandfoodwise.online folks may have pointers. Consider the aspects of both social and ecological restoration, land acknowledgement, land 'ownership'. If you're doing non-urban areas and attempting housing, think about the different framings of Wildlife Urban Interface (WUI). Note excerpt: " See also [[Millán Millán]] paper Greening and Browning in a Climate Change Hotspot: The Mediterranean Basin which delves into this too. interesting paper, talks about wildlife-urban interface (reminded me of https://www.pnas.org/content/115/13/3314 from https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/30/opinion/sunday/california-fires.html ) but notably the urban population living near it... "This is occurring in an area where human population is increasing—especially the urban population (i.e., people not living from the land) in the wildland–urban interface (Modugno et al. 2016)." main reaction is that I/we need to be trained to go through that transformation in living with land."

Pfhreak 6y ago
This is incredibly useful. It's just east of Steven's Pass.
- redisman 6y ago
  A good place to source trees is “Go Natives” in Richmond Beach. I went there this summer and they had hundreds of cedars and a great selection of native plants of all kinds.

redisman 6y ago

I’ve been thinking about something similar one day. Buy a tract of land and just let it return to its native form with some help from me. Are there any obvious legal or financial pitfalls or hints you’ve gathered?

Pfhreak 6y ago
Mineral rights might be sold independently from land rights, meaning someone could come mine the land you are fostering. You can get cheap seedlings from the state, and depending on the land you might be able to get financial assistance with preparing the land. Everything is slow. Timber companies are slow, forest service is slow, etc.