4 ms·

What I'm curious is understanding how people can arrive at radically different conclusions and thought processes when operating in the same world and same socie

What I'm curious is understanding how people can arrive at radically different conclusions and thought processes when operating in the same world and same society. There seems to be a parallel thought process and definition of words that the "woke" operate by that are completely different than what is commonly accepted as the definition of a word. Words like "racist" mean something completely different. Things like "it's impossible to be racist if you are black" and making people feel ashamed of themselves for the skin color they were born with (if they are white). In the original story, seems like their decision is clearly racist and also sexist but it seems like these definitions are only selectively applied. It seems like "diversity" to them means no white people not having an equal distribution of races. They are doing the very things the are arguing against but it doesn't seem to register. How is this possible?

jariel 6y ago
"clearly racist and also sexist but it seems like these definitions are only selectively applied." No, they are not 'selectively applied' - in their view. In 'their version' of 'racist' - they cannot be racist - only White People can, because it's a matter of power. Even if you're only 15%. Get it? This is one of the 'root causes' - the rhetorical position that The Woke have taken is highlighted in 'White Fragility': White people are all White Supremcists by definition, they are all walking, talking 'root causes' of the problem, and therefore cannot even have any real knowledge of the problem. All they can do is shut-up and try to empathize. So this is not 'racism is judgment based on race' it's 'racism as White people have power and others don't ergo, they are racist'. It's a masterful rhetorical technique: your opponents are by definition wrong. Scientologists do this. They are taught that they are 'clean and clear, essentially above human' and that regular people are 'broken people, like animals' and there's no point in arguing with a dog. Some of their rhetorical techniques are shocking. That's a great world to live in, right? It speaks to our worst prejudices. Every day on TikTok I see racist and misandrist content, mostly by White Women and it's not only 'ok' it's pass off as 'enlightened'. It's a very powerful thing to be able to take ostensibly a moral position, but then to also bigoted at the same time - I feel it's the intellectual parallel to the power that police feel when holding a gun against someone who is 'bad'. One group can run around wielding their arbitrary moral policing, the other can't speak on the issue and so you have bad public dynamics. I don't know the answer but Phase 1 I think should be to recognize that irrespective of power, that bigotry is bigotry and actions, headlines, policies etc. that are race based have to be treated with caution, very conservatively (small-c), with deliberation.
lm28469 6y ago
> when operating in the same world and same society. We simply don't live in the same world and same society. American people struggles are very different from European people struggles, and even inside Europe each country's population have their own personalities, quirks, vastly different history, culture, morale code. Just look at how the "woke" US medias spinned the anti islamism (pro tip: islam != islamism) laws that were being discussed in France recently. It's almost as if ISIS struggle was compared to African Americans struggle. Some (most?) cultures are just not equipped to deal with other cultures' issues And even in the same countries, or cities, thanks to social medias and totally biased paper/tv medias it's extremely easy to get sucked in a bubble.
underseacables 6y ago
I think they arrive at these decisions based on power and personal desire. There will always be someone who is happy about capitalism because they have money, but there will also be someone equally angry about capitalism because they don’t have that money. To me everything in America dividing one another is about power, not hard power, but the power to make others submit to a preference or belief. It also seems to be driven by a vengeful jealousy, intent on hurting those who have it better. It’s just unfortunate they the tools this powerless class has is to cancel, and force others to adopt a wokeness which has no positive effect on society, other than to be used as an ideological weapon.
- DenisM 6y ago
  > It also seems to be driven by a vengeful jealousy I have to disagree with that. My personal impression is that Americans are the most accepting of other people's fortune, so much so they need an excuse before they can attack the rich and powerful, something on the moral plane because riches themselves are not considered a sin.
christkv 6y ago
You have to think of wokeness as a religious framework not a logical one.

jariel 6y ago

"clearly racist and also sexist but it seems like these definitions are only selectively applied." No, they are not 'selectively applied' - in their view. In 'their version' of 'racist' - they cannot be racist - only White People can, because it's a matter of power. Even if you're only 15%. Get it? This is one of the 'root causes' - the rhetorical position that The Woke have taken is highlighted in 'White Fragility': White people are all White Supremcists by definition, they are all walking, talking 'root causes' of the problem, and therefore cannot even have any real knowledge of the problem. All they can do is shut-up and try to empathize. So this is not 'racism is judgment based on race' it's 'racism as White people have power and others don't ergo, they are racist'. It's a masterful rhetorical technique: your opponents are by definition wrong. Scientologists do this. They are taught that they are 'clean and clear, essentially above human' and that regular people are 'broken people, like animals' and there's no point in arguing with a dog. Some of their rhetorical techniques are shocking. That's a great world to live in, right? It speaks to our worst prejudices. Every day on TikTok I see racist and misandrist content, mostly by White Women and it's not only 'ok' it's pass off as 'enlightened'. It's a very powerful thing to be able to take ostensibly a moral position, but then to also bigoted at the same time - I feel it's the intellectual parallel to the power that police feel when holding a gun against someone who is 'bad'. One group can run around wielding their arbitrary moral policing, the other can't speak on the issue and so you have bad public dynamics. I don't know the answer but Phase 1 I think should be to recognize that irrespective of power, that bigotry is bigotry and actions, headlines, policies etc. that are race based have to be treated with caution, very conservatively (small-c), with deliberation.

lm28469 6y ago

> when operating in the same world and same society. We simply don't live in the same world and same society. American people struggles are very different from European people struggles, and even inside Europe each country's population have their own personalities, quirks, vastly different history, culture, morale code. Just look at how the "woke" US medias spinned the anti islamism (pro tip: islam != islamism) laws that were being discussed in France recently. It's almost as if ISIS struggle was compared to African Americans struggle. Some (most?) cultures are just not equipped to deal with other cultures' issues And even in the same countries, or cities, thanks to social medias and totally biased paper/tv medias it's extremely easy to get sucked in a bubble.

underseacables 6y ago

I think they arrive at these decisions based on power and personal desire. There will always be someone who is happy about capitalism because they have money, but there will also be someone equally angry about capitalism because they don’t have that money. To me everything in America dividing one another is about power, not hard power, but the power to make others submit to a preference or belief. It also seems to be driven by a vengeful jealousy, intent on hurting those who have it better. It’s just unfortunate they the tools this powerless class has is to cancel, and force others to adopt a wokeness which has no positive effect on society, other than to be used as an ideological weapon.

DenisM 6y ago
> It also seems to be driven by a vengeful jealousy I have to disagree with that. My personal impression is that Americans are the most accepting of other people's fortune, so much so they need an excuse before they can attack the rich and powerful, something on the moral plane because riches themselves are not considered a sin.

christkv 6y ago

You have to think of wokeness as a religious framework not a logical one.