4 ms·

I sense that for Progressives the pursuit of Equity means that "looking out for your own kind" is not racist for any group that is disadvantaged, underserved, o

I sense that for Progressives the pursuit of Equity means that "looking out for your own kind" is not racist for any group that is disadvantaged, underserved, or systematically oppressed.

lm28469 6y ago
If you split groups based on enough variables every single one of us is part of a disadvantaged group. A fight which isn't directed in the right direction is a waste of time and resource. > "looking out for your own kind" is not racist If "your own kind" is based on """race""" [0], it is, no matter who's doing it. Words have meaning, either they apply to everyone or they don't apply at all. [0] aka ethnicity, skin color, &c. because "races" don't exist anywhere on earth other than in the US
- BitwiseFool 6y ago
  I no longer subscribe to the "words matter" philosophy, considering how fast and loose people on the left treat language in arguments. Remember when ICE was running "concentration camps"? > because "races" don't exist anywhere on earth other than in the US Race doesn't exist, except when it does for BIPOC or when talking about the concept of Blackness or whiteness. You're probably thinking, those aren't races those are ethnicities! But what does it matter? These are terms used to separate people into groups and even if you switch the words the concept remains. If you're saying I'm using Race/Ethnicity incorrectly just know that on every form I have ever filled out about demographics race was a choice from "African, Asian, Caucasian, etc." and Ethnicity was only two options, "Hispanic/Latino or Non Hispanic/Latino".
  - lm28469 6y ago
    > how fast and loose people on the left treat language in arguments. Not even one sentence in and we already in a "left vs right" argument... Newspeak isn't a leftist thing, it's a "people who know the power of words" thing > Remember when ICE was running "concentration camps"? It's just as despicable when it's coming from one or the other, and that why you shouldn't side with either > But on every form I have ever filled out race was a choice from "African, Asian, Caucasian, etc." And this is exactly why we should reappropriate words and their meaning, and not fall into the trap of complete deconstruction of language(s)
    - BitwiseFool 6y ago
      > "Not even one sentence in and we already in a "left vs right" argument... Newspeak isn't a leftist thing, it's a "people who know the power of words" thing" To be honest, this captures my frustration perfectly. I have a concept I am trying to communicate but I'm essentially being told "no, you're not using the right term". If I were to go back and change "people on the left" to "Newspeak users" it wouldn't substantially change what I'm trying to get across. And I feel like all we are doing is bickering about word-choice.
      - lm28469 6y ago
        Meh, I don't feel like I misinterpreted your message. You can think words don't have meanings, but I can only interpret the words you type > I no longer subscribe to the "words matter" philosophy, This is your point > considering how fast and loose people on the left this is your argument to support your point Either keep the political side out or use example of both sides. Otherwise people will think you're trying to charge one side for the issue
        BitwiseFool 6y ago
        In my life experience I have only ever had these kinds of definition debates with people on the left. And I'm confident this back and forth is no exception. Yes, I know full well that conservatives can play this game too and I'm sure you have examples. At no point did I ever claim that the problem is exclusive to the left. They just do it a lot more often.

I sense that for Progressives the pursuit of Equity means that "looking out for your own kind" is not racist for any group that is disadvantaged, underserved, or systematically oppressed.

lm28469 6y ago

If you split groups based on enough variables every single one of us is part of a disadvantaged group. A fight which isn't directed in the right direction is a waste of time and resource. > "looking out for your own kind" is not racist If "your own kind" is based on """race""" [0], it is, no matter who's doing it. Words have meaning, either they apply to everyone or they don't apply at all. [0] aka ethnicity, skin color, &c. because "races" don't exist anywhere on earth other than in the US

BitwiseFool 6y ago
I no longer subscribe to the "words matter" philosophy, considering how fast and loose people on the left treat language in arguments. Remember when ICE was running "concentration camps"? > because "races" don't exist anywhere on earth other than in the US Race doesn't exist, except when it does for BIPOC or when talking about the concept of Blackness or whiteness. You're probably thinking, those aren't races those are ethnicities! But what does it matter? These are terms used to separate people into groups and even if you switch the words the concept remains. If you're saying I'm using Race/Ethnicity incorrectly just know that on every form I have ever filled out about demographics race was a choice from "African, Asian, Caucasian, etc." and Ethnicity was only two options, "Hispanic/Latino or Non Hispanic/Latino".
- lm28469 6y ago
  > how fast and loose people on the left treat language in arguments. Not even one sentence in and we already in a "left vs right" argument... Newspeak isn't a leftist thing, it's a "people who know the power of words" thing > Remember when ICE was running "concentration camps"? It's just as despicable when it's coming from one or the other, and that why you shouldn't side with either > But on every form I have ever filled out race was a choice from "African, Asian, Caucasian, etc." And this is exactly why we should reappropriate words and their meaning, and not fall into the trap of complete deconstruction of language(s)
  - BitwiseFool 6y ago
    > "Not even one sentence in and we already in a "left vs right" argument... Newspeak isn't a leftist thing, it's a "people who know the power of words" thing" To be honest, this captures my frustration perfectly. I have a concept I am trying to communicate but I'm essentially being told "no, you're not using the right term". If I were to go back and change "people on the left" to "Newspeak users" it wouldn't substantially change what I'm trying to get across. And I feel like all we are doing is bickering about word-choice.
    - lm28469 6y ago
      Meh, I don't feel like I misinterpreted your message. You can think words don't have meanings, but I can only interpret the words you type > I no longer subscribe to the "words matter" philosophy, This is your point > considering how fast and loose people on the left this is your argument to support your point Either keep the political side out or use example of both sides. Otherwise people will think you're trying to charge one side for the issue
      - BitwiseFool 6y ago
        In my life experience I have only ever had these kinds of definition debates with people on the left. And I'm confident this back and forth is no exception. Yes, I know full well that conservatives can play this game too and I'm sure you have examples. At no point did I ever claim that the problem is exclusive to the left. They just do it a lot more often.