4 ms·

> What if we didn't encourage a world in which people identified with and advocated for their own race? It saddens me to see the woke ideology taking hold acro

> What if we didn't encourage a world in which people identified with and advocated for their own race? It saddens me to see the woke ideology taking hold across the United States. It is indeed fundamentally racist and brings us back to our most tribalistic behaviors. It's the kind of thinking we learned a long time ago to put in the past. But now it's making a resurgence. And it's spreading. But articles like [this](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/09/world/europe/france-threat-american-universities.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/09/world/europe/france-threa...) and the most upvoted comments within it give me hope that the west hasn't become entirely mad. It seems the French have observed the discourse of modern American events and see how decisive and destructive the ideology is. I'll quote the top comment within this particular article. > Yes, importing the American political correctness/woke/cancel culture will destroy France. How do I know this? Because it is already destroying the US. It fuels social division, and it distracts from the real problems, which tend to be economic and environmental. Much of the recent scholarship coming from the US, obsessed about race and gender, is completely useless and extremely ideological. It is no wonder that many of the most important books of global interest from recent years, such as Picketty's Capital in the 21st Century, do not come from the US. US universities are not free environments of vigorous intellectual debate anymore, and the faculty lives under constant fear of uttering the wrong word or phrase, and of being canceled because of their ideas. If a child of mine decided to study social sciences or a humanities field, the US would the last place I would send them to. I'm glad France is standing up against this nonsense. It gives me hope.

ng12 6y ago
> Because it is already destroying the US. It fuels social division, and it distracts from the real problems, which tend to be economic and environmental I think about this a lot. I don't think it's a coincidence that most of the countries lauded for their economic equity or environmental leadership are also largely homogenous societies. I don't know what the answer is for a fundamentally multicultural country like the US but obsessing about race and "representation" surely isn't it.
- throwaway894345 6y ago
  > I don't know what the answer is for a fundamentally multicultural like the US but obsessing about race and "representation" surely isn't it. I've been thinking about this a bit lately and it reminds me of the "melting pot" metaphors we learned about in middle school. Rather than having a bunch of disparate, competing identities I think America is only going to work well when we form a single united, composite identity. I'm not sure if this is nationalism or not, but if it is, it's an ethnically-inclusive nationalism which seems markedly better than the scary kinds of nationalism from the 20th century and earlier. It probably does imply some assimilation, but it's not necessarily everyone assimilating to some "white identity"; rather, everyone assimilates toward the composite "American" identity (whatever that is). I'm not sure if this is what "multicultural" refers to or if it refers to the more progressive ideal of segregated ethnic lanes competing with one another, but the last 5-10 years makes me feel like the latter is untenable.
  - Mountain_Skies 6y ago
    Not sure that 'melting pot' is taught anymore. What I've seen over the past couple of decades is 'cultural stew' where the emphasis is on each ingredient keeping most of its integrity with some exchange of attributes (flavors) over time. It's a nice concept but every cook knows while incredible combinations are possible, not every combination of ingredients makes for a good dish.
    - mobilefriendly 6y ago
      Yes schools have explicitly rejected "melting pot" for a "tossed salad" metaphor where individual races/cultures remain distinct.
      - throwawaysea 6y ago
        Wait is this really true? Since it’s been a long time since I was in school I wasn’t even aware that this subtle but obviously impactful change had taken place. I find it a bit sad because it programs students in a different way. How does one even track this kind of change?
te_chris 6y ago
All that quote proves is that the the author of the quote isn’t paying attention to books as they’re released. Hyperbole gets recommends though!
bcheung 6y ago
The political class benefits from conflict and division like this. It gives them a scape goat they can use for whatever the pressing issue is at the moment and any consequences of their actions. > US universities are not free environments of vigorous intellectual debate anymore This seems like one of the most pressing dangers we are facing right now. How can this be changed? Where can people go to have honest intellectual debates?
- throwawaysea 6y ago
  I think another question is whether it matters if there is a different place to have those debates. If a significant number of people enter universities and get indoctrinated into their monoculture, the minority that are exposed to a more diverse and honest intellectual debate elsewhere might as well not exist. It’s like when Reddit, Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook ban someone or some group or some content: there may be other alternate spaces where the same content is shared but if it’s not part of the same gigantic mainstream network its real influence on society is nothing.

ng12 6y ago

> Because it is already destroying the US. It fuels social division, and it distracts from the real problems, which tend to be economic and environmental I think about this a lot. I don't think it's a coincidence that most of the countries lauded for their economic equity or environmental leadership are also largely homogenous societies. I don't know what the answer is for a fundamentally multicultural country like the US but obsessing about race and "representation" surely isn't it.

throwaway894345 6y ago
> I don't know what the answer is for a fundamentally multicultural like the US but obsessing about race and "representation" surely isn't it. I've been thinking about this a bit lately and it reminds me of the "melting pot" metaphors we learned about in middle school. Rather than having a bunch of disparate, competing identities I think America is only going to work well when we form a single united, composite identity. I'm not sure if this is nationalism or not, but if it is, it's an ethnically-inclusive nationalism which seems markedly better than the scary kinds of nationalism from the 20th century and earlier. It probably does imply some assimilation, but it's not necessarily everyone assimilating to some "white identity"; rather, everyone assimilates toward the composite "American" identity (whatever that is). I'm not sure if this is what "multicultural" refers to or if it refers to the more progressive ideal of segregated ethnic lanes competing with one another, but the last 5-10 years makes me feel like the latter is untenable.
- Mountain_Skies 6y ago
  Not sure that 'melting pot' is taught anymore. What I've seen over the past couple of decades is 'cultural stew' where the emphasis is on each ingredient keeping most of its integrity with some exchange of attributes (flavors) over time. It's a nice concept but every cook knows while incredible combinations are possible, not every combination of ingredients makes for a good dish.
  - mobilefriendly 6y ago
    Yes schools have explicitly rejected "melting pot" for a "tossed salad" metaphor where individual races/cultures remain distinct.
    - throwawaysea 6y ago
      Wait is this really true? Since it’s been a long time since I was in school I wasn’t even aware that this subtle but obviously impactful change had taken place. I find it a bit sad because it programs students in a different way. How does one even track this kind of change?

te_chris 6y ago

All that quote proves is that the the author of the quote isn’t paying attention to books as they’re released. Hyperbole gets recommends though!

bcheung 6y ago

The political class benefits from conflict and division like this. It gives them a scape goat they can use for whatever the pressing issue is at the moment and any consequences of their actions. > US universities are not free environments of vigorous intellectual debate anymore This seems like one of the most pressing dangers we are facing right now. How can this be changed? Where can people go to have honest intellectual debates?

throwawaysea 6y ago
I think another question is whether it matters if there is a different place to have those debates. If a significant number of people enter universities and get indoctrinated into their monoculture, the minority that are exposed to a more diverse and honest intellectual debate elsewhere might as well not exist. It’s like when Reddit, Twitter, YouTube, and Facebook ban someone or some group or some content: there may be other alternate spaces where the same content is shared but if it’s not part of the same gigantic mainstream network its real influence on society is nothing.