8 ms·

Agreed, but I think it's at least a defensible case if you activate the music specifically and only when you know you're being recorded for a mass audience.

by SilasX 6y ago

PragmaticPulp 6y ago
So the officers just claim they always listen to music? Or that they were simply trying to send a message that they were done with the conversation with someone who is following them around on the job? Which seems to be the case here, honestly. Or that they didn’t know that a random person with a phone had a massive YouTube following combined with intent to post this video online? I know everyone wants to stick it to these cops, but let’s be realistic. Normally HN is very against weaponizing copyright law, but the second it feels useful for their purposes we’re flooded with comments from people who want to misuse copyright law as a weapon.
- bmicraft 6y ago
  Maybe they should turn it down a bit while on the job? There is no reason the music should to be heard outside their car.
  - mc32 6y ago
    Hmmm, I’d like to see this applied to many a teenager eager to have me listen to their choice of music for free from afar.
    - monocasa 6y ago
      I hold police to a higher professional standard than I do lackadaisical teenagers.
      - mc32 6y ago
        Both are playing music loudly and projecting it openly. Either it’s allowed for all or allowed for none. I’m good with either decision as long as it’s consistent.
        rootusrootus 6y ago
        My employer expects me to keep my music quiet (preferably confined to my ears only) when I am at the office. At home I can play it loud enough that the neighbors can hear it, and that's okay. I'm fine with professional officers being held to different standards when they are on duty.
        mc32 6y ago
        What about a job site? Can they play loudly if the company or the foreman or forewoman allows it? Is it unprofessional if they play it loudly?
        monocasa 6y ago
        A jobsite has different and looser standards of professional conduct than what the police should be generally held to, yes.
        mc32 6y ago
        I don’t think the cruiser is subject to your elevated standards. This is a classic case of double standards. We want one set of standards god people we agree with and another set of standards for people we disagree with. To avoid this, we institute a standard across the board for everyone, like them or dislike them.
        monocasa 6y ago
        Your entire premise was on what could be heard outside the cruiser. And yes, it's fundamentally OK to hold police to a higher standard than the general public, including literal children. I'm not sure why this is in question.
      - slowhand09 6y ago
        How about criminals? Higher standards for them? Maybe that music they play while filming the knockout game, or stuff for Worldstar?
        monocasa 6y ago
        I'm not even sure what you're going off about. But yes, I hold the police to higher standards of professional conduct than I do common criminals.
        slowhand09 6y ago
        I guess I'm triggered by people who feel the need to get in officers faces and video them when they are trying to do their jobs. I'm sure my privilege is showing, but cops don't hassle me because I don't do stupid stuff. I don't deal or use drugs, beat my significant other, steal cars, etc. My last interaction with a cop was getting pulled for not having a front tag on my car. "No prob officer, I'll take care of it." I don't make a thing of it when somebody "disses" me. I don't "not show for court" or anything else that causes me to be flagged for outstanding warrants. I'm not saying there aren't some abusive, nasty cops out there. But the "nice" cops aren't so effective when dealing with nasty people. Number 1 way to prevent violence during arrests, or avoid arrest is (Ding Ding!) BE RESPECTFUL.
        monocasa 6y ago
        I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you're white and present as middle class or above?
        throwawayboise 6y ago
        And are you as well?
        monocasa 6y ago
        I drive a beater, which is enough to commonly be pulled over with police starting off with a disrespectful demeanor from them. I've gotten "are you employed, son?" as the beginning interaction even before "do you know why I pulled you over?" multiple times. You can watch them re-calibrate in real time when they get the answer "yes, I'm a software engineer". So initially I don't present as middle class, but once they get a hint of the fact that I am, you can watch them change their behavior nearly instantly. Other times, they don't ask questions like that and have then for instance lied about my drivers license being revoked, taken it, and then pretended like that never happened later, requiring my dash cam footage to even get them to admit they pulled me over. My friends of color aren't typically even given the chance to re-calibrate their class position to the police by being asked questions like that.
- sjg007 6y ago
  It's probably against policy to listen to music while on the beat and definitely when interacting with the public.
  - PragmaticPulp 6y ago
    On the contrary, I wouldn’t be surprised if this was a de-escalation tactic for dealing with stalkers. If you watch the video (which is available in the previous article and all over social media, contrary to the narrative) it’s clear that the person is trying to get a rise out of the police officers by following them around and badgering them for content on his social media channels. He even went so far as to watermark the video with his social media handles. It’s clear that the officers are tired of dealing with him and being followed around while trying to do their jobs.
    - monkmartinez 6y ago
      I totally agree with you. There are lots of people that do this to EMS as well. Fortunately, I have HIPPA to get these people away from scenes. Unfortunately, there are a ton of people that have nothing better to do than film/jibe/harangue police and fire/EMS in the course of their duties. We know a lot of them on a first name basis including bday, medical history and how many times we have given them narcan... as we often find them with needles in their arms overdosed.
      - ceejayoz 6y ago
        > Fortunately, I have HIPPA to get these people away from scenes. HIPAA, and you don't. (I'm sure the claim works on people, though.) https://www.ems1.com/ems-products/cameras-video/articles/photojournalist-5-tips-for-managing-the-media-on-ems-scenes-nG0R3Q59XlzaPZZu/ https://www.ems1.com/ems-products/cameras-video/articles/pho... > Your basic HIPAA obligation when it comes to the press is very simple. Don't divulge any patient medical information to a journalist. Don’t discuss patient specifics within hearing or recording distance, at least not in great detail. Don’t write notes where they can be read. If you have a clipboard with medical information, turn it over so it can’t be seen in a photograph. > Your HIPAA obligation does not, however, require you to stop me or others from taking images at the scene. Can you keep them at a somewhat reasonable distance? Yes. Out of the scene entirely? Generally no, barring a hazmat incident or something where you'd need to be getting out too.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > So the officers just claim they always listen to music? > Or that they were simply trying to send a message that they were done with the conversation with someone who is following them around on the job? Which seems to be the case here, honestly. > Or that they didn’t know that a random person with a phone had a massive YouTube following combined with intent to post this video online? They can claim those things, sure. But liability (especially civil liability, which is need only be established by preponderance of the evidence, not beyond a reasonable doubt like criminal liability) doesn't go away just because you can present a narrative which is possibly true which would provide an innocent explanation. Moreover, if a department pays the cost of litigating a couple cases where officers actions in this regard are challenged, they'll have a strong incentive to adopt policies which prevent the dispute from occurring.
- tonyg 6y ago
  > Normally HN is very against weaponizing copyright law I mean, a good chunk of the people here are GPL fans, and if that's not a weaponization of copyright law, I don't know what is.
gowld 6y ago
The police are being obnoxious but they are exploiting the streaming platforms and the rightsholders. That's where the problem is. It doesn't making any sense to ask the rightsholders to pressure the police to stop using a tactic that only works because the rightholders want it to work.

Agreed, but I think it's at least a defensible case if you activate the music specifically and only when you know you're being recorded for a mass audience.

by SilasX 6y ago

Agreed, but I think it's at least a defensible case if you activate the music specifically and only when you know you're being recorded for a mass audience.

PragmaticPulp 6y ago

So the officers just claim they always listen to music? Or that they were simply trying to send a message that they were done with the conversation with someone who is following them around on the job? Which seems to be the case here, honestly. Or that they didn’t know that a random person with a phone had a massive YouTube following combined with intent to post this video online? I know everyone wants to stick it to these cops, but let’s be realistic. Normally HN is very against weaponizing copyright law, but the second it feels useful for their purposes we’re flooded with comments from people who want to misuse copyright law as a weapon.

bmicraft 6y ago
Maybe they should turn it down a bit while on the job? There is no reason the music should to be heard outside their car.
- mc32 6y ago
  Hmmm, I’d like to see this applied to many a teenager eager to have me listen to their choice of music for free from afar.
  - monocasa 6y ago
    I hold police to a higher professional standard than I do lackadaisical teenagers.
    - mc32 6y ago
      Both are playing music loudly and projecting it openly. Either it’s allowed for all or allowed for none. I’m good with either decision as long as it’s consistent.
      - rootusrootus 6y ago
        My employer expects me to keep my music quiet (preferably confined to my ears only) when I am at the office. At home I can play it loud enough that the neighbors can hear it, and that's okay. I'm fine with professional officers being held to different standards when they are on duty.
        mc32 6y ago
        What about a job site? Can they play loudly if the company or the foreman or forewoman allows it? Is it unprofessional if they play it loudly?
        monocasa 6y ago
        A jobsite has different and looser standards of professional conduct than what the police should be generally held to, yes.
        mc32 6y ago
        I don’t think the cruiser is subject to your elevated standards. This is a classic case of double standards. We want one set of standards god people we agree with and another set of standards for people we disagree with. To avoid this, we institute a standard across the board for everyone, like them or dislike them.
        monocasa 6y ago
        Your entire premise was on what could be heard outside the cruiser. And yes, it's fundamentally OK to hold police to a higher standard than the general public, including literal children. I'm not sure why this is in question.
    - slowhand09 6y ago
      How about criminals? Higher standards for them? Maybe that music they play while filming the knockout game, or stuff for Worldstar?
      - monocasa 6y ago
        I'm not even sure what you're going off about. But yes, I hold the police to higher standards of professional conduct than I do common criminals.
        slowhand09 6y ago
        I guess I'm triggered by people who feel the need to get in officers faces and video them when they are trying to do their jobs. I'm sure my privilege is showing, but cops don't hassle me because I don't do stupid stuff. I don't deal or use drugs, beat my significant other, steal cars, etc. My last interaction with a cop was getting pulled for not having a front tag on my car. "No prob officer, I'll take care of it." I don't make a thing of it when somebody "disses" me. I don't "not show for court" or anything else that causes me to be flagged for outstanding warrants. I'm not saying there aren't some abusive, nasty cops out there. But the "nice" cops aren't so effective when dealing with nasty people. Number 1 way to prevent violence during arrests, or avoid arrest is (Ding Ding!) BE RESPECTFUL.
        monocasa 6y ago
        I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you're white and present as middle class or above?
        throwawayboise 6y ago
        And are you as well?
        monocasa 6y ago
        I drive a beater, which is enough to commonly be pulled over with police starting off with a disrespectful demeanor from them. I've gotten "are you employed, son?" as the beginning interaction even before "do you know why I pulled you over?" multiple times. You can watch them re-calibrate in real time when they get the answer "yes, I'm a software engineer". So initially I don't present as middle class, but once they get a hint of the fact that I am, you can watch them change their behavior nearly instantly. Other times, they don't ask questions like that and have then for instance lied about my drivers license being revoked, taken it, and then pretended like that never happened later, requiring my dash cam footage to even get them to admit they pulled me over. My friends of color aren't typically even given the chance to re-calibrate their class position to the police by being asked questions like that.
sjg007 6y ago
It's probably against policy to listen to music while on the beat and definitely when interacting with the public.
- PragmaticPulp 6y ago
  On the contrary, I wouldn’t be surprised if this was a de-escalation tactic for dealing with stalkers. If you watch the video (which is available in the previous article and all over social media, contrary to the narrative) it’s clear that the person is trying to get a rise out of the police officers by following them around and badgering them for content on his social media channels. He even went so far as to watermark the video with his social media handles. It’s clear that the officers are tired of dealing with him and being followed around while trying to do their jobs.
  - monkmartinez 6y ago
    I totally agree with you. There are lots of people that do this to EMS as well. Fortunately, I have HIPPA to get these people away from scenes. Unfortunately, there are a ton of people that have nothing better to do than film/jibe/harangue police and fire/EMS in the course of their duties. We know a lot of them on a first name basis including bday, medical history and how many times we have given them narcan... as we often find them with needles in their arms overdosed.
    - ceejayoz 6y ago
      > Fortunately, I have HIPPA to get these people away from scenes. HIPAA, and you don't. (I'm sure the claim works on people, though.) https://www.ems1.com/ems-products/cameras-video/articles/photojournalist-5-tips-for-managing-the-media-on-ems-scenes-nG0R3Q59XlzaPZZu/ https://www.ems1.com/ems-products/cameras-video/articles/pho... > Your basic HIPAA obligation when it comes to the press is very simple. Don't divulge any patient medical information to a journalist. Don’t discuss patient specifics within hearing or recording distance, at least not in great detail. Don’t write notes where they can be read. If you have a clipboard with medical information, turn it over so it can’t be seen in a photograph. > Your HIPAA obligation does not, however, require you to stop me or others from taking images at the scene. Can you keep them at a somewhat reasonable distance? Yes. Out of the scene entirely? Generally no, barring a hazmat incident or something where you'd need to be getting out too.
dragonwriter 6y ago
> So the officers just claim they always listen to music? > Or that they were simply trying to send a message that they were done with the conversation with someone who is following them around on the job? Which seems to be the case here, honestly. > Or that they didn’t know that a random person with a phone had a massive YouTube following combined with intent to post this video online? They can claim those things, sure. But liability (especially civil liability, which is need only be established by preponderance of the evidence, not beyond a reasonable doubt like criminal liability) doesn't go away just because you can present a narrative which is possibly true which would provide an innocent explanation. Moreover, if a department pays the cost of litigating a couple cases where officers actions in this regard are challenged, they'll have a strong incentive to adopt policies which prevent the dispute from occurring.
tonyg 6y ago
> Normally HN is very against weaponizing copyright law I mean, a good chunk of the people here are GPL fans, and if that's not a weaponization of copyright law, I don't know what is.

gowld 6y ago

The police are being obnoxious but they are exploiting the streaming platforms and the rightsholders. That's where the problem is. It doesn't making any sense to ask the rightsholders to pressure the police to stop using a tactic that only works because the rightholders want it to work.