6 ms·

> Ubuntu is a free product. Canonical should not be able to find out if I (specifically me or my organization) allocates or runs 1 or 10000 instances of Ubuntu

> Ubuntu is a free product. Canonical should not be able to find out if I (specifically me or my organization) allocates or runs 1 or 10000 instances of Ubuntu I agree with the message behind this and obviously Canonical and Microsoft are both being extremely gross. But Ubuntu as a binary image (or source code) is a very different product than a VM with Ubuntu pre-installed and pre-configured, which is what you paid for (and is why you got ensnared by their horrible anti-user license).

inetknght 6y ago
> But Ubuntu as a binary image (or source code) is a very different product than a VM with Ubuntu pre-installed. How? Why? If it's different in any meaningful way from just clicking "next" on the installer then it's no longer Ubuntu, and certainly not Canonical Ubuntu, that's pre-installed. It's become, at best, Microsoft-Ubuntu-Because-Microsoft-Added-Telemetry-For-Azure. Or it's Canoncical-Ubuntu-Configured-By-Microsoft-With-Azure-CLI-Preinstalled. It's not "Ubuntu" any more.
- hannasanarion 6y ago
  You don't get to decide what is and isn't "Ubuntu", Canonical does. Did you likewise declare that Ubuntu isn't Ubuntu anymore when Canonical dropped Unity? or when they added snap? Or when they added or later removed the Amazon search plugin? When I'm paying for an official Azure version of Ubuntu on Azure, I darn well expect there will be a closer support relationship than the free desktop version.
  - saghm 6y ago
    > When I'm paying for an official Azure version of Ubuntu on Azure, I darn well expect there will be a closer support relationship than the free desktop version. Okay, but maybe other people don't want that if it entails their information being shared with a company they haven't initiated a business relationship with?
    - hannasanarion 6y ago
      > Using their software on professionally hosted servers > haven't initiated a business relationship ????
      - saghm 6y ago
        The servers are not hosted by Canonical
        hannasanarion 6y ago
        But the servers are running Canonical software. Just because it's GPL'd doesn't mean that Canonical doesn't own it or that you have no relationship with them by using it. You are paying them a license fee to get the azure image, after all. To say that you have no business relationship with Canonical while paying Canonical to use Canonical software with official Canonical technical support is absurd to the highest degree.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- inetknght 6y ago
  [deleted]
  - ojnabieoot 6y ago
    Just FYI, this is bad manners. I deleted the comment because I didn't want to continue the conversation and I especially didn't want to engage with you - specifically, your comments here and elsewhere indicate that you are frequently toxic and hostile. You deciding to resurrect the comment because you happened to see it before I deleted it is really not OK. It's the exact kind of toxic hostile, creepy interaction I was trying to avoid from you by deleting the comment!
    - inetknght 6y ago
      > your comments here and elsewhere indicate that you are frequently toxic and hostile I thought your comment was interesting and merited a reply for others to see and discuss. But I see you disagree so I've removed the content of my reply. Feel free to flag any comments you find particularly toxic or hostile. You can do that by clicking on the timestamp of the comment and clicking the `flag` link. Or even better, let me know (like you have done so here). I can't improve myself if I don't know there's a problem.
      - vntok 6y ago
        There's no problem with your comment so please do not "improve" yourself based on the parent; they should, not you.
    - nitrogen 6y ago
      Erasing history and demanding others follow your lead is bad manners. Posting something and deleting it after it has been seen is basically gaslighting. Imagine the kinds of harassment people could get away with if they said rude things to coworkers on chat, then edited the messages to appear benign after the coworker responded to their hostility. That is why people quote the text of comments to which they want to reply.
    - 6y ago
falcolas 6y ago
If you go to Ubuntu's web site, they will offer several distinct ISOs, each optimized for different usecases; and yet I'm not charged all of my personal information there either. Ditto the Ubuntu images on Docker Hub.
- taftster 6y ago
  Right. If I can run Ubuntu on Docker without Canonical knowing, I should be able to run Ubuntu on Azure without Canonical knowing. This is a big misstep for Microsoft, from my point of view. I think it's less a reflection on Canonical, because once they have the information, it's ultimately going to be used. Microsoft just should not have agreed to the arrangement at all.
throwawayboise 6y ago
Both Microsoft and Canonical are for-profit enterprises. To quote the old native american (?) fable: You knew what I was when you picked me up.
- bayindirh 6y ago
  > Both Microsoft and Canonical are for-profit enterprises. I don't think that most of the people have a problem with that. The problem is being sucked-in to something without ever agreeing into. In the era of privacy sensitivity (which I think is healthy), being watched in a place and prodded from a different channel is disturbing. I don't mind people trying to reach me with the hope of sales based on information I've provided to them, but this is too far. Also it removes two veils from both companies at once: 1. It seems Microsoft still has sneaky tactics, but they're more invisible. 2. Canonical is somewhat more aggressive and greedy than it seems, and Ubuntu desktop is just a freemium product, or another capturing device for further vendor lock-in.

inetknght 6y ago

> But Ubuntu as a binary image (or source code) is a very different product than a VM with Ubuntu pre-installed. How? Why? If it's different in any meaningful way from just clicking "next" on the installer then it's no longer Ubuntu, and certainly not Canonical Ubuntu, that's pre-installed. It's become, at best, Microsoft-Ubuntu-Because-Microsoft-Added-Telemetry-For-Azure. Or it's Canoncical-Ubuntu-Configured-By-Microsoft-With-Azure-CLI-Preinstalled. It's not "Ubuntu" any more.

hannasanarion 6y ago
You don't get to decide what is and isn't "Ubuntu", Canonical does. Did you likewise declare that Ubuntu isn't Ubuntu anymore when Canonical dropped Unity? or when they added snap? Or when they added or later removed the Amazon search plugin? When I'm paying for an official Azure version of Ubuntu on Azure, I darn well expect there will be a closer support relationship than the free desktop version.
- saghm 6y ago
  > When I'm paying for an official Azure version of Ubuntu on Azure, I darn well expect there will be a closer support relationship than the free desktop version. Okay, but maybe other people don't want that if it entails their information being shared with a company they haven't initiated a business relationship with?
  - hannasanarion 6y ago
    > Using their software on professionally hosted servers > haven't initiated a business relationship ????
    - saghm 6y ago
      The servers are not hosted by Canonical
      - hannasanarion 6y ago
        But the servers are running Canonical software. Just because it's GPL'd doesn't mean that Canonical doesn't own it or that you have no relationship with them by using it. You are paying them a license fee to get the azure image, after all. To say that you have no business relationship with Canonical while paying Canonical to use Canonical software with official Canonical technical support is absurd to the highest degree.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
inetknght 6y ago
[deleted]
- ojnabieoot 6y ago
  Just FYI, this is bad manners. I deleted the comment because I didn't want to continue the conversation and I especially didn't want to engage with you - specifically, your comments here and elsewhere indicate that you are frequently toxic and hostile. You deciding to resurrect the comment because you happened to see it before I deleted it is really not OK. It's the exact kind of toxic hostile, creepy interaction I was trying to avoid from you by deleting the comment!
  - inetknght 6y ago
    > your comments here and elsewhere indicate that you are frequently toxic and hostile I thought your comment was interesting and merited a reply for others to see and discuss. But I see you disagree so I've removed the content of my reply. Feel free to flag any comments you find particularly toxic or hostile. You can do that by clicking on the timestamp of the comment and clicking the `flag` link. Or even better, let me know (like you have done so here). I can't improve myself if I don't know there's a problem.
    - vntok 6y ago
      There's no problem with your comment so please do not "improve" yourself based on the parent; they should, not you.
  - nitrogen 6y ago
    Erasing history and demanding others follow your lead is bad manners. Posting something and deleting it after it has been seen is basically gaslighting. Imagine the kinds of harassment people could get away with if they said rude things to coworkers on chat, then edited the messages to appear benign after the coworker responded to their hostility. That is why people quote the text of comments to which they want to reply.
  - 6y ago

falcolas 6y ago

If you go to Ubuntu's web site, they will offer several distinct ISOs, each optimized for different usecases; and yet I'm not charged all of my personal information there either. Ditto the Ubuntu images on Docker Hub.

taftster 6y ago
Right. If I can run Ubuntu on Docker without Canonical knowing, I should be able to run Ubuntu on Azure without Canonical knowing. This is a big misstep for Microsoft, from my point of view. I think it's less a reflection on Canonical, because once they have the information, it's ultimately going to be used. Microsoft just should not have agreed to the arrangement at all.

throwawayboise 6y ago

Both Microsoft and Canonical are for-profit enterprises. To quote the old native american (?) fable: You knew what I was when you picked me up.

bayindirh 6y ago
> Both Microsoft and Canonical are for-profit enterprises. I don't think that most of the people have a problem with that. The problem is being sucked-in to something without ever agreeing into. In the era of privacy sensitivity (which I think is healthy), being watched in a place and prodded from a different channel is disturbing. I don't mind people trying to reach me with the hope of sales based on information I've provided to them, but this is too far. Also it removes two veils from both companies at once: 1. It seems Microsoft still has sneaky tactics, but they're more invisible. 2. Canonical is somewhat more aggressive and greedy than it seems, and Ubuntu desktop is just a freemium product, or another capturing device for further vendor lock-in.