5 ms·

You could also just use Debian instead of Ubuntu.

IgorPartola 6y ago
But systemd :). Honestly the main servers I am thinking of moving use zfs and zfs on FreeBSD is more of a first class citizen than on Linux.
- jkaplowitz 6y ago
  The zfs reason makes sense, but in recent releases Debian and Ubuntu take the same approach to systemd, so switching between those two wouldn't meaningfully change the init system situation. (I did see the smiley face; this comment is just in case that smiley is more self-deprecation than sarcasm, or for other readers.)
  - IgorPartola 6y ago
    I put the smiley there because just the other day I was defending systemd on a different HN discussion as a perfectly usable piece of software. I meant that I wanted to move off a system that uses systemd which would mean both Debian and Ubuntu. It has been a while since I’ve run a non-Linux server so part of it is to stretch my stead in muscles. Don’t want to get rusty.
    - jkaplowitz 6y ago
      Gotcha! Keeping skills fresh and broad is a good idea.
- mamcx 6y ago
  How good is freebsd to host a typical PG + nginx + docker + Rust/Python backend? ie: Can I use last versions of everything and expect to work? I have always used ubuntu.
  - andrewzah 6y ago
    If you use docker heavily, *bsds are not an option. You do not need a *bsd just for ZFS, although it is supported quite nicely. I use zfs with proxmox for my server, which is debian based. I would recommend using debian buster. People lose their minds over systemd and it's ridiculous. Debian has been the best experience of any distro that I've used, and I've tried most of them. For my router I use openbsd.
  - IgorPartola 6y ago
    BSD has jails which are roughly equivalent to Docker and are older and more stable tech. I am also a big proponent of not needing Docker nearly as much as most people seem to think it's needed. Sure, if your stack revolves around a custom-compiled nginx version downloaded off some guy's FTP site then Docker is nice, but also why does your stack revolve around a custom-compiled nginx version downloaded off some guy's FTP site? The rest will run as well or better. FreeBSD is a more cohesive unit and by some claims is more performant than Linux. tl;dr: no it won't be a seamless move because the only seamless move would be from Ubuntu to Ubuntu. But if you are willing to explore tech that isn't the current in-vogue stack you will find some really cool stuff in BSD-land. And their rc.conf is a pleasure to work with compared to to the million config files you need to use on Ubuntu/systemd.
    - andrewzah 6y ago
      For people who use docker at work, avoiding it is simply not possible. Our stack revolves around images (not necessarily docker), so *bsds are dead in the water for me. Additionally, orchestrating is simplified with docker-compose vs managing many jails. I used to manage freebsd jails via cli in FreeNAS, but orchestration with docker-compose is much easier and trackable in git. Transferring between machines is as easy as setting up docker, git cloning, and setting secrets. [0] Podman solves some issue docker has, but using stuff like S6 [1] in containers helps a ton. Perhaps most importantly, docker images are reproducible (for the most part) while jails only have templates, so it's up to you to manage reproducibility. Don't get me wrong- OpenBSD and FreeBSD are amazing distros. OpenBSD has the best user experience in my opinion, which is why I use it for my router. But they suck for modern gaming and stuff like docker. "custom-compiled nginx version downloaded off some guy's FTP" This is a strawman argument. But, sometimes one might want custom compilation without installing a host of build tools on the host system. Or one might want to have a reproducible build not tied to the host system. Compilation may be expensive (like with ffmpeg) or the host may be underpowered like a Raspberry Pi. Etc. [0]: https://github.com/andrewzah/lilac-docker/tree/main/services https://github.com/andrewzah/lilac-docker/tree/main/services [1]: https://skarnet.org/software/s6/ https://skarnet.org/software/s6/

But systemd :). Honestly the main servers I am thinking of moving use zfs and zfs on FreeBSD is more of a first class citizen than on Linux.

jkaplowitz 6y ago
The zfs reason makes sense, but in recent releases Debian and Ubuntu take the same approach to systemd, so switching between those two wouldn't meaningfully change the init system situation. (I did see the smiley face; this comment is just in case that smiley is more self-deprecation than sarcasm, or for other readers.)
- IgorPartola 6y ago
  I put the smiley there because just the other day I was defending systemd on a different HN discussion as a perfectly usable piece of software. I meant that I wanted to move off a system that uses systemd which would mean both Debian and Ubuntu. It has been a while since I’ve run a non-Linux server so part of it is to stretch my stead in muscles. Don’t want to get rusty.
  - jkaplowitz 6y ago
    Gotcha! Keeping skills fresh and broad is a good idea.
mamcx 6y ago
How good is freebsd to host a typical PG + nginx + docker + Rust/Python backend? ie: Can I use last versions of everything and expect to work? I have always used ubuntu.
- andrewzah 6y ago
  If you use docker heavily, *bsds are not an option. You do not need a *bsd just for ZFS, although it is supported quite nicely. I use zfs with proxmox for my server, which is debian based. I would recommend using debian buster. People lose their minds over systemd and it's ridiculous. Debian has been the best experience of any distro that I've used, and I've tried most of them. For my router I use openbsd.
- IgorPartola 6y ago
  BSD has jails which are roughly equivalent to Docker and are older and more stable tech. I am also a big proponent of not needing Docker nearly as much as most people seem to think it's needed. Sure, if your stack revolves around a custom-compiled nginx version downloaded off some guy's FTP site then Docker is nice, but also why does your stack revolve around a custom-compiled nginx version downloaded off some guy's FTP site? The rest will run as well or better. FreeBSD is a more cohesive unit and by some claims is more performant than Linux. tl;dr: no it won't be a seamless move because the only seamless move would be from Ubuntu to Ubuntu. But if you are willing to explore tech that isn't the current in-vogue stack you will find some really cool stuff in BSD-land. And their rc.conf is a pleasure to work with compared to to the million config files you need to use on Ubuntu/systemd.
  - andrewzah 6y ago
    For people who use docker at work, avoiding it is simply not possible. Our stack revolves around images (not necessarily docker), so *bsds are dead in the water for me. Additionally, orchestrating is simplified with docker-compose vs managing many jails. I used to manage freebsd jails via cli in FreeNAS, but orchestration with docker-compose is much easier and trackable in git. Transferring between machines is as easy as setting up docker, git cloning, and setting secrets. [0] Podman solves some issue docker has, but using stuff like S6 [1] in containers helps a ton. Perhaps most importantly, docker images are reproducible (for the most part) while jails only have templates, so it's up to you to manage reproducibility. Don't get me wrong- OpenBSD and FreeBSD are amazing distros. OpenBSD has the best user experience in my opinion, which is why I use it for my router. But they suck for modern gaming and stuff like docker. "custom-compiled nginx version downloaded off some guy's FTP" This is a strawman argument. But, sometimes one might want custom compilation without installing a host of build tools on the host system. Or one might want to have a reproducible build not tied to the host system. Compilation may be expensive (like with ffmpeg) or the host may be underpowered like a Raspberry Pi. Etc. [0]: https://github.com/andrewzah/lilac-docker/tree/main/services https://github.com/andrewzah/lilac-docker/tree/main/services [1]: https://skarnet.org/software/s6/ https://skarnet.org/software/s6/