5 ms·

In years to come we will look down on the 5 day working week in the same way we currently do with 15hr factory shifts during the industrial revolution. It abso

In years to come we will look down on the 5 day working week in the same way we currently do with 15hr factory shifts during the industrial revolution. It absolutely blows my mind that 99% of office roles are still 5 days / week, Monday to Friday - why is there basically no variation on this model? It annoys me so much that I've just launched https://www.fourdayweek.io/ https://www.fourdayweek.io/ (shameless plug)

ganzsz 6y ago
I feel you. I just started working for a smaller company where I can work 4 days. And I have to say, my midweekend(Wednesday off) is amazing. Still able to pay the bills, but I'm working to live, not living to work. I really hope this option is possible when I decide to go for a new challenge in a few years. I really like what you try to achieve with the platform. Will keep an eye on it.
- philmcp 6y ago
  Thanks! You're setup sounds great. It should be more common than it currently is - the option should at least be available I just asked my boss if I can move to 4 days per week and he said yes, changing next month - cannot wait...
bamboozled 6y ago
It absolutely blows my mind that 99% of office roles are still 4 days / week, Monday to Thursday - why is there basically no variation on this model?
- philmcp 6y ago
  It absolutely blows my mind that 99% of office roles are still 3 days / week, Monday to Wednesday - why is there basically no variation on this model?
  - ashtonkem 6y ago
    Sarcasm aside, there actually is a metric we can use as a society to decide these things. If we track productivity gains since the 40 hour work week was established in law, we can determine how many few hours we can work without lowering our standard of living. The magic number appears to be about 12-15 a week. Or, we can track how many hours people actually spend working. Most office workers will (anonymously) self report that they work roughly 3.5 hours a (edit) day; the rest is spent doing non-productive things. Assuming a five day week filled with only work, that gives us about 17.5 hours a week.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - zajio1am 6y ago
      > we can determine how many few hours we can work without lowering our standard of living. ... relative to day, when 40 hour week was established. Which was pretty low standard of living compared to what people are used today.
      - ashtonkem 6y ago
        Sure. But personally I’d be pretty happy to trade all the improvements in our living standard for an extra 20 hours a week of my life back. What’s a smart phone compared to the most precious thing we have, time? I’d also assert that a lot of pointless work is getting done. If workers are self-reporting that they work ~3.5hrs a day, then perhaps we wouldn’t even need to give up any quality of life if we just eliminate the need to fake being busy for 40hrs a week.
  - Viliam1234 6y ago
    When it gets to 3 days / week, it will be easy to introduce variation: have people work in shifts. First three days -- shift A; second three days -- shift B; one free day for all together. You want more time together? Synchronize with your family members to work the same shift, and you get four free days together.
leetcrew 6y ago
> It absolutely blows my mind that 99% of office roles are still 5 days / week, Monday to Friday - why is there basically no variation on this model? probably because most people don't want variation? if you have to work forty hours a week, you might as well work the same forty hours as your partner/friends/family so you can easily schedule non-work tasks and social events in the evenings or on the weekend. if you have children that need to be shuttled to/from school, 9-5 aligns well with that. ah I see from your website that you are questioning the forty hour workweek to begin with. I'm sure most people would happily work eight hours less for the same pay, but I'm not sure how much interest there is in 80% time for 80% pay. also going back to my previous point, the value of that extra free day is diminished somewhat if it doesn't align with activities you want to participate in or availability of people you want to spend time with. I guess you could just treat it as a "chore day" to free up more time on the actual weekend.
- mywittyname 6y ago
  Spend some time working a variable schedule and see how far you get before you long for the 9-5 again. Yeah, traffic a sucks, and grocery stores & restaurants are slammed on the weekends. But it is really, really nice to be able to schedule time with friends and family without needing to sync schedules.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    > But it is really, really nice to be able to schedule time with friends and family without needing to sync schedules. For those with friends and family not in the service sector.
    - wonder_er 6y ago
      > For those with friends and family not in the service sector. Most people in the service sector have mid-day availability a few days a week. I spent a few years working weekends, so the only time I could hang out with friends outside of work was monday-tuesdays.
ransom1538 6y ago
"5 day working week.. Monday to Friday - why is there basically no variation on this model?" This also double screws you due to crowding. When do people drive to work? Same time you do. When do people go to USPS? Same lunch time you do. What time can you go to the fancy restaurant? Same Friday night everyone else does. Traffic, parks, grocery stores are all crowded at the exact same time.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  There’s an easy solution to this. Instead of continuing to expand roads, implement variable rate tolling where prices rise sufficiently such that sufficient number of people are dissuaded from using the road at certain times so that there is no congestion.
  - np- 6y ago
    It’s generally already the wealthy who have maximum flexibility in their schedule. So sure, they can duck out at 3pm for the cheap roads but sounds like those who are on shift based schedules (majority of the working class) will end up having to pay to use these variably tolled roads.
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      The business will have to pay accordingly if they want to incentivize the employee to travel at the peak congestion times.
      - np- 6y ago
        This was in reply to people who are doing things like running errands at the USPS and eating at restaurants, right? What does an employer have anything to do with that?
  - GVIrish 6y ago
    That only works with flexible workplaces. If you make the congestion tax really high but most workplaces don't give people flexibility with work schedules, all you're doing is forcing people to take longer, roundabout commutes. In the DC Metro region we have congestion-based tolls and it seems like it has shifted commuting times a bit, but it also causes a lot more congestion on the secondary traffic arteries. Thankfully I think the pandemics has sort of disrupted employer ideas about flexibility. It's clear more workplaces are offering remote work and flexible schedules and I think that change will last.
ashtonkem 6y ago
Especially since we know that most office workers are phoning it in for 3-4 hours a day.
purple_ferret 6y ago
For me it seems like the 40 hr work week was constructed not for productivity but as the max amount of workable time where a worker would feel like they still have some sort of life outside of work (weekend + 2-3 hrs a weekday of free time). Even then you can be constantly exhausted. Anything higher and you basically accept you have no life.
- konjin 6y ago
  Anything lower and you become dangerously involved in the real world. There is a reason why work hours started trending up after the upheaval of the 70s.
foolfoolz 6y ago
there’s plenty of variation. most people who work do not work 40hrs/5 days a week. this is actually a luxury compared to the majority of people working in the world today
loceng 6y ago
A result of hyper-capitalism which includes regulatory capture and the lack of adequate social safety nets like UBI, so you aren't forced into work at an unfair wage.

ganzsz 6y ago

I feel you. I just started working for a smaller company where I can work 4 days. And I have to say, my midweekend(Wednesday off) is amazing. Still able to pay the bills, but I'm working to live, not living to work. I really hope this option is possible when I decide to go for a new challenge in a few years. I really like what you try to achieve with the platform. Will keep an eye on it.

philmcp 6y ago
Thanks! You're setup sounds great. It should be more common than it currently is - the option should at least be available I just asked my boss if I can move to 4 days per week and he said yes, changing next month - cannot wait...

bamboozled 6y ago

It absolutely blows my mind that 99% of office roles are still 4 days / week, Monday to Thursday - why is there basically no variation on this model?

philmcp 6y ago
It absolutely blows my mind that 99% of office roles are still 3 days / week, Monday to Wednesday - why is there basically no variation on this model?
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  Sarcasm aside, there actually is a metric we can use as a society to decide these things. If we track productivity gains since the 40 hour work week was established in law, we can determine how many few hours we can work without lowering our standard of living. The magic number appears to be about 12-15 a week. Or, we can track how many hours people actually spend working. Most office workers will (anonymously) self report that they work roughly 3.5 hours a (edit) day; the rest is spent doing non-productive things. Assuming a five day week filled with only work, that gives us about 17.5 hours a week.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - zajio1am 6y ago
    > we can determine how many few hours we can work without lowering our standard of living. ... relative to day, when 40 hour week was established. Which was pretty low standard of living compared to what people are used today.
    - ashtonkem 6y ago
      Sure. But personally I’d be pretty happy to trade all the improvements in our living standard for an extra 20 hours a week of my life back. What’s a smart phone compared to the most precious thing we have, time? I’d also assert that a lot of pointless work is getting done. If workers are self-reporting that they work ~3.5hrs a day, then perhaps we wouldn’t even need to give up any quality of life if we just eliminate the need to fake being busy for 40hrs a week.
- Viliam1234 6y ago
  When it gets to 3 days / week, it will be easy to introduce variation: have people work in shifts. First three days -- shift A; second three days -- shift B; one free day for all together. You want more time together? Synchronize with your family members to work the same shift, and you get four free days together.

leetcrew 6y ago

> It absolutely blows my mind that 99% of office roles are still 5 days / week, Monday to Friday - why is there basically no variation on this model? probably because most people don't want variation? if you have to work forty hours a week, you might as well work the same forty hours as your partner/friends/family so you can easily schedule non-work tasks and social events in the evenings or on the weekend. if you have children that need to be shuttled to/from school, 9-5 aligns well with that. ah I see from your website that you are questioning the forty hour workweek to begin with. I'm sure most people would happily work eight hours less for the same pay, but I'm not sure how much interest there is in 80% time for 80% pay. also going back to my previous point, the value of that extra free day is diminished somewhat if it doesn't align with activities you want to participate in or availability of people you want to spend time with. I guess you could just treat it as a "chore day" to free up more time on the actual weekend.

mywittyname 6y ago
Spend some time working a variable schedule and see how far you get before you long for the 9-5 again. Yeah, traffic a sucks, and grocery stores & restaurants are slammed on the weekends. But it is really, really nice to be able to schedule time with friends and family without needing to sync schedules.
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  > But it is really, really nice to be able to schedule time with friends and family without needing to sync schedules. For those with friends and family not in the service sector.
  - wonder_er 6y ago
    > For those with friends and family not in the service sector. Most people in the service sector have mid-day availability a few days a week. I spent a few years working weekends, so the only time I could hang out with friends outside of work was monday-tuesdays.

ransom1538 6y ago

"5 day working week.. Monday to Friday - why is there basically no variation on this model?" This also double screws you due to crowding. When do people drive to work? Same time you do. When do people go to USPS? Same lunch time you do. What time can you go to the fancy restaurant? Same Friday night everyone else does. Traffic, parks, grocery stores are all crowded at the exact same time.

lotsofpulp 6y ago
There’s an easy solution to this. Instead of continuing to expand roads, implement variable rate tolling where prices rise sufficiently such that sufficient number of people are dissuaded from using the road at certain times so that there is no congestion.
- np- 6y ago
  It’s generally already the wealthy who have maximum flexibility in their schedule. So sure, they can duck out at 3pm for the cheap roads but sounds like those who are on shift based schedules (majority of the working class) will end up having to pay to use these variably tolled roads.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    The business will have to pay accordingly if they want to incentivize the employee to travel at the peak congestion times.
    - np- 6y ago
      This was in reply to people who are doing things like running errands at the USPS and eating at restaurants, right? What does an employer have anything to do with that?
- GVIrish 6y ago
  That only works with flexible workplaces. If you make the congestion tax really high but most workplaces don't give people flexibility with work schedules, all you're doing is forcing people to take longer, roundabout commutes. In the DC Metro region we have congestion-based tolls and it seems like it has shifted commuting times a bit, but it also causes a lot more congestion on the secondary traffic arteries. Thankfully I think the pandemics has sort of disrupted employer ideas about flexibility. It's clear more workplaces are offering remote work and flexible schedules and I think that change will last.

ashtonkem 6y ago

Especially since we know that most office workers are phoning it in for 3-4 hours a day.

purple_ferret 6y ago

For me it seems like the 40 hr work week was constructed not for productivity but as the max amount of workable time where a worker would feel like they still have some sort of life outside of work (weekend + 2-3 hrs a weekday of free time). Even then you can be constantly exhausted. Anything higher and you basically accept you have no life.

konjin 6y ago
Anything lower and you become dangerously involved in the real world. There is a reason why work hours started trending up after the upheaval of the 70s.

foolfoolz 6y ago

there’s plenty of variation. most people who work do not work 40hrs/5 days a week. this is actually a luxury compared to the majority of people working in the world today

loceng 6y ago

A result of hyper-capitalism which includes regulatory capture and the lack of adequate social safety nets like UBI, so you aren't forced into work at an unfair wage.