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Let me preface this with that I am aware that hunger and fullness are very much genetically determined and that that dictates to a large degree how fat you'll b

Let me preface this with that I am aware that hunger and fullness are very much genetically determined and that that dictates to a large degree how fat you'll be. But there's this thing that when people get some sort of diagnosis they'll act like it's something you have absolutely influence on and the only way is to have some sort of external intervention or declare "that's just the way I am". You just have to look at how many patients gain back large amounts of weight after getting their stomachs stapled. Exercise has a positive correlation with controlling hunger, eating differently can also greatly increase fullness and reduce hunger, cutting alcohol from the diet does absolute wonders. Maybe it won't get you to a 'beach lean' physique, but it will for sure make you more healthy. If this drug is truly effective it will only save the patient from the direct effects of obesity, not the effects of sustaining a poor diet, a lack of exercise, or overconsumption of alcohol.

pier25 6y ago
> hunger and fullness are very much genetically determined and that that dictates to a large degree how fat you'll be Do you have any good source on that?
- ClumsyPilot 6y ago
  I don't think you should be posing a challange to folks to prove well-known facts that are a single single google search away.
  - s1artibartfast 6y ago
    It is far from a well-known fact. IT is clearly disproved by looking at weight across countries and throughout time. The average American male weight has gone from 165 in 1960 to 200lbs in 2020. Obesity has gone from 15% to 45% in the same period. Genetics have not rapidly changed in this time period. https://images.app.goo.gl/YKogsucsMD1DUMKf6 https://images.app.goo.gl/YKogsucsMD1DUMKf6
    - ClumsyPilot 6y ago
      I think you are missing the point, or have not read the relevant research. No-one is claiming revent changes are due to genetics. The claim is: in a given group of a thousand people, eating the same food and having the same execesise, some will be obese and some will not due to genetics. That distribution is very wide, and well studied. Thus, when you encounter a random obese person in the wild you cant conclude this is just because they eat bigmacs all day Lastly, I do dislike comments that pick a random statement from OP and ask "where is the proof" and do not actually engage with the crux of the message. They just sidetrack discourse.
      - s1artibartfast 6y ago
        >The claim is: in a given group of a thousand people, eating the same food and having the same execesise, some will be obese and some will not due to genetics. That distribution is very wide, and well studied. This was not the same claim. Yes, it is well understood that individuals are different. some people have a harder time and some have an easier time, for sure. This does not negate that personal choice plays a much greater role than genetics. OP >> hunger and fullness are very much genetically determined and that that dictates to a large degree how fat you'll be Genentech influences are only significant if you intentionally exclude dietary choice providing the "same food and exercise" to each person. >Thus, when you encounter a random obese person in the wild you cant conclude this is just because they eat bigmacs all day Im not sure when or why I would need to make conclusions about a specific random obese person in the wild. I'm fine with the understanding that 90+% of obesity is personal diet. This is sufficient for talking in generalities about obesity in society. If for some weird reason, I need to do a root cause assessment on a random individual's obesity, yes, this is not sufficient. If I encounter another random obese person in the wild, I have no reason to care if the reason IS their bigmac consumption. It is their life and their choice. Lots of people value food consumption over their weight. Lastly, I totally agree that the genetics was a footnote to the original point, but think there is value in correcting incorrect facts. If someone else wants to engage with the crux of the message, they are still free to do so. What I don't like is when people erroneously claiming that science backs up their position when it doesn't.
  - pier25 6y ago
    Even if I did pose a challenge (I wasn't, I was just curious) it would totally be ok.
- FriedrichN 6y ago
  I don't have a true scientific source on hand, but the BBC Horizon episode "The Restaurant that Burns Off Calories" goes in a little on how genetics influence eating behaviour amongst other things. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000hjnr https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000hjnr
ClumsyPilot 6y ago
I know a few middle-aged overwieght people who have a healthy diet (100% home cooking) and spend 4 - 6 hours a week in the gym. When you get older, you body is not as good at regulating itself. Think sumo wrestler - they can beat your ass and survive in a tundra, but they don't look like a model. If they could wave a magic wand and loose 10 kg, they would.
watwut 6y ago
As of now, the majority of dieting attempts (over 90%) fail in the long term. People loose weight and then slowly gain it back - changing their metabolism in the process. People can loose weight, but pretty often do it in an unhealthy way that is not sustainable. Keeping that weight in sustainable way is what issue is. We dont have intervention that would actually worked long term for that.
- FriedrichN 6y ago
  I'm not talking about "a diet" but diet, as in what one eats throughout the day, week, year. What is needed is not a diet, but an absolute change in lifestyle. It will not simply change the way your plate looks and how much is on it, but how your life looks. This is a big commitment and people have a tendency to quit when one single thing fails. The key is not willpower, it is persistence. It took me years to get to a point where I felt in control of my weight. It wasn't easy and I did many stupid things but I just kept on going on. A big part of it is not seeing a lack of progress in scale weight or body composition as a personal failure but as valuable feedback or just an "oopsie".

pier25 6y ago

> hunger and fullness are very much genetically determined and that that dictates to a large degree how fat you'll be Do you have any good source on that?

ClumsyPilot 6y ago
I don't think you should be posing a challange to folks to prove well-known facts that are a single single google search away.
- s1artibartfast 6y ago
  It is far from a well-known fact. IT is clearly disproved by looking at weight across countries and throughout time. The average American male weight has gone from 165 in 1960 to 200lbs in 2020. Obesity has gone from 15% to 45% in the same period. Genetics have not rapidly changed in this time period. https://images.app.goo.gl/YKogsucsMD1DUMKf6 https://images.app.goo.gl/YKogsucsMD1DUMKf6
  - ClumsyPilot 6y ago
    I think you are missing the point, or have not read the relevant research. No-one is claiming revent changes are due to genetics. The claim is: in a given group of a thousand people, eating the same food and having the same execesise, some will be obese and some will not due to genetics. That distribution is very wide, and well studied. Thus, when you encounter a random obese person in the wild you cant conclude this is just because they eat bigmacs all day Lastly, I do dislike comments that pick a random statement from OP and ask "where is the proof" and do not actually engage with the crux of the message. They just sidetrack discourse.
    - s1artibartfast 6y ago
      >The claim is: in a given group of a thousand people, eating the same food and having the same execesise, some will be obese and some will not due to genetics. That distribution is very wide, and well studied. This was not the same claim. Yes, it is well understood that individuals are different. some people have a harder time and some have an easier time, for sure. This does not negate that personal choice plays a much greater role than genetics. OP >> hunger and fullness are very much genetically determined and that that dictates to a large degree how fat you'll be Genentech influences are only significant if you intentionally exclude dietary choice providing the "same food and exercise" to each person. >Thus, when you encounter a random obese person in the wild you cant conclude this is just because they eat bigmacs all day Im not sure when or why I would need to make conclusions about a specific random obese person in the wild. I'm fine with the understanding that 90+% of obesity is personal diet. This is sufficient for talking in generalities about obesity in society. If for some weird reason, I need to do a root cause assessment on a random individual's obesity, yes, this is not sufficient. If I encounter another random obese person in the wild, I have no reason to care if the reason IS their bigmac consumption. It is their life and their choice. Lots of people value food consumption over their weight. Lastly, I totally agree that the genetics was a footnote to the original point, but think there is value in correcting incorrect facts. If someone else wants to engage with the crux of the message, they are still free to do so. What I don't like is when people erroneously claiming that science backs up their position when it doesn't.
- pier25 6y ago
  Even if I did pose a challenge (I wasn't, I was just curious) it would totally be ok.
FriedrichN 6y ago
I don't have a true scientific source on hand, but the BBC Horizon episode "The Restaurant that Burns Off Calories" goes in a little on how genetics influence eating behaviour amongst other things. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000hjnr https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000hjnr

ClumsyPilot 6y ago

I know a few middle-aged overwieght people who have a healthy diet (100% home cooking) and spend 4 - 6 hours a week in the gym. When you get older, you body is not as good at regulating itself. Think sumo wrestler - they can beat your ass and survive in a tundra, but they don't look like a model. If they could wave a magic wand and loose 10 kg, they would.

watwut 6y ago

As of now, the majority of dieting attempts (over 90%) fail in the long term. People loose weight and then slowly gain it back - changing their metabolism in the process. People can loose weight, but pretty often do it in an unhealthy way that is not sustainable. Keeping that weight in sustainable way is what issue is. We dont have intervention that would actually worked long term for that.

FriedrichN 6y ago
I'm not talking about "a diet" but diet, as in what one eats throughout the day, week, year. What is needed is not a diet, but an absolute change in lifestyle. It will not simply change the way your plate looks and how much is on it, but how your life looks. This is a big commitment and people have a tendency to quit when one single thing fails. The key is not willpower, it is persistence. It took me years to get to a point where I felt in control of my weight. It wasn't easy and I did many stupid things but I just kept on going on. A big part of it is not seeing a lack of progress in scale weight or body composition as a personal failure but as valuable feedback or just an "oopsie".