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That's a zero sum view of a person who probably contributes little to the bottom line. I've worked on projects where I was directly responsible for landing clie

That's a zero sum view of a person who probably contributes little to the bottom line. I've worked on projects where I was directly responsible for landing client deals worth millions and I got compensated accordingly.

sudosysgen 6y ago
In the vast majority of companies at some level (generally the project or department) there is a fixed pool that managers get to spend on things including salaries. Your position was either not at all that of a programmer, or the structure of your company was exceptional.
onion2k 6y ago
I've worked on projects where I was directly responsible for landing client deals worth millions and I got compensated accordingly. I bet you didn't. I've known people who've done the same sort of thing (technical architect in pre-sales), and their bonuses were about 1/20th of the salesperson's bonus for the same deals. Unless you've negotiated a bonus structure where you're compensated based on what work you land you never really get the sort of cut you should.
BoorishBears 6y ago
The painful irony of this comment. The view of the person you replied to is the view of a person who has information generally considered "above your pay grade" - Also generally your comment doesn't make sense, what does "compensated accordingly" even mean? How does it rebut the idea that compensation comes from a pool? If anything it affirms it, you're saying the deal was worth millions, do you think your employer just had a check for the millions of dollars and was prepared to divy it up for bonuses? Or do you think they budgeted a certain percentage of the cashflow for retention to ensure it landed smoothly? Like any competent business would?
- reader_mode 6y ago
  Umm I've worked in high growth companies where there's almost always more opportunities than the ability to capitalise and I would work out a deal in advance to pull off things most people weren't able or willing to - the total revenue increased and so did my compensation - there was always money preallocated for growth opportunities. The only time I saw the "fixed pie" mentality is on my first job in newspapers back in the early 2000s right at their collapse to the internet.
  - BoorishBears 6y ago
    Your comment has so many words that don't really say anything... Honestly your first paragraph just sounds like you work at companies that can't afford the talent they want on an ongoing basis... so they're willing to pay extra conditionally for when they need current talent to step up to the level they're looking for. That's a hell of a deal for the company (especially a growing one!) and as you can see it does wonders for retention since giving everyone a carrot isn't as appreciated as hiding the carrot behind your back until they "earn it through exceptional work". The latter approach also really plays egos... and ego is what gets a 10 gallons of work out of a 9 gallon bag. - Maybe early in my career I would have been on with that? But yeah, if a place is only going to pay me what I'm worth contingent on finding specific opportunities to negotiate it why would I take that? Instead I can go to a place that understands I can do things others can't, hires me for that reason, and pays me accordingly by default? - That's not a "fixed pie" mentality either, it's a "fixed self-worth" mentality. Also known by the moniker of "f*ck you, pay me" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jVkLVRt6c1U https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jVkLVRt6c1U My worth is not contingent on business is going. My worth is not contingent on if the deal fell through. My worth is not contingent on how much revenue this project is going to make. I'm not going to get shorted on pay compared to the guy working on a project for a sales deal just because I'm working on the boring maintenance parts that will come afterwards and that's not as sexy or the optics aren't as bright. I'm worth what I'm worth, and if they can't pay it they can't have me. In other words "f*ck you, pay me". The pie is irrelevant.

sudosysgen 6y ago

In the vast majority of companies at some level (generally the project or department) there is a fixed pool that managers get to spend on things including salaries. Your position was either not at all that of a programmer, or the structure of your company was exceptional.

onion2k 6y ago

I've worked on projects where I was directly responsible for landing client deals worth millions and I got compensated accordingly. I bet you didn't. I've known people who've done the same sort of thing (technical architect in pre-sales), and their bonuses were about 1/20th of the salesperson's bonus for the same deals. Unless you've negotiated a bonus structure where you're compensated based on what work you land you never really get the sort of cut you should.

BoorishBears 6y ago

The painful irony of this comment. The view of the person you replied to is the view of a person who has information generally considered "above your pay grade" - Also generally your comment doesn't make sense, what does "compensated accordingly" even mean? How does it rebut the idea that compensation comes from a pool? If anything it affirms it, you're saying the deal was worth millions, do you think your employer just had a check for the millions of dollars and was prepared to divy it up for bonuses? Or do you think they budgeted a certain percentage of the cashflow for retention to ensure it landed smoothly? Like any competent business would?

reader_mode 6y ago
Umm I've worked in high growth companies where there's almost always more opportunities than the ability to capitalise and I would work out a deal in advance to pull off things most people weren't able or willing to - the total revenue increased and so did my compensation - there was always money preallocated for growth opportunities. The only time I saw the "fixed pie" mentality is on my first job in newspapers back in the early 2000s right at their collapse to the internet.
- BoorishBears 6y ago
  Your comment has so many words that don't really say anything... Honestly your first paragraph just sounds like you work at companies that can't afford the talent they want on an ongoing basis... so they're willing to pay extra conditionally for when they need current talent to step up to the level they're looking for. That's a hell of a deal for the company (especially a growing one!) and as you can see it does wonders for retention since giving everyone a carrot isn't as appreciated as hiding the carrot behind your back until they "earn it through exceptional work". The latter approach also really plays egos... and ego is what gets a 10 gallons of work out of a 9 gallon bag. - Maybe early in my career I would have been on with that? But yeah, if a place is only going to pay me what I'm worth contingent on finding specific opportunities to negotiate it why would I take that? Instead I can go to a place that understands I can do things others can't, hires me for that reason, and pays me accordingly by default? - That's not a "fixed pie" mentality either, it's a "fixed self-worth" mentality. Also known by the moniker of "f*ck you, pay me" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jVkLVRt6c1U https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jVkLVRt6c1U My worth is not contingent on business is going. My worth is not contingent on if the deal fell through. My worth is not contingent on how much revenue this project is going to make. I'm not going to get shorted on pay compared to the guy working on a project for a sales deal just because I'm working on the boring maintenance parts that will come afterwards and that's not as sexy or the optics aren't as bright. I'm worth what I'm worth, and if they can't pay it they can't have me. In other words "f*ck you, pay me". The pie is irrelevant.