5 ms·

I used to be a "40 hours of focused work a week isn't even doable guy". After working at a startup, I believe this is incorrect. I think personally I have a ca

by lummmm 6y ago

I used to be a "40 hours of focused work a week isn't even doable guy". After working at a startup, I believe this is incorrect. I think personally I have a capacity of 55-60 focused hours, and some people might have more, maintainable indefinitely.

asutekku 6y ago
The question is, is that sustainable on the long term mental health wise.
- hh3k0 6y ago
  Not just mental health but health in general. That said, would it really be desirable? There's no work-life balance as long as we work 5 days a week and rest 2, imo. > The Dalai Lama, when asked what surprised him most about humanity, he said: > “Man. Because he sacrifices his health in order to make money. Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
  - Hydraulix989 6y ago
    What's the alternative? Being broke isn't fun either.
- whizzter 6y ago
  I think that depends a bit on personality, place/time in life, etc. I could easily pull those hours in my early 20s,etc but nowadays I have family and other things so if I do those hours I'll be behind with other things so in addition to needing a bit of extra rest as I'm older, I'll also be in a "todo-deficit" that needs to be caught up with making for more stress in the near/middle term.
- fizx 6y ago
  Yup, also, as someone who's done sustained 60+ (maybe even a month of 80+), there's very little room for creativity. It works ok for pursuing the solution to that one clear, looming problem. I much prefer 5hrs/day of focus, arriving at the office refreshed, excited, and creative.
sudosysgen 6y ago
Have you tried to measure if this is true for you? The idea that one can't focus for 40 hours isn't simply based on feeling, but evidence.
- mattm 6y ago
  Yeah from what I've read, people who work longer feel more productive but in reality they're less productive. I would guess it's from your stress hormones constantly being engaged. This also jives with my experience noticing colleagues. The least productive people I've worked with have worked the longest hours.
lm28469 6y ago
> I think personally I have a capacity of 55-60 focused hours, and some people might have more, maintainable indefinitely. Some people also have a life out of the office and "work" in this out of work life.
dstick 6y ago
Was it your startup? Were you vested? Or was it someone else's and were you paid for your time?
Cthulhu_ 6y ago
While I'm sure this is true, it really depends on whether it's your business, how much of the product is 'yours', etc. Most people however work for a salary and don't feel like hours invested equals return on investment. The latter is one of the main causes of burn-out; forcing yourself to spend hours and energy on something that does not have good return on investment. Setbacks weigh more heavily. I think that in a few years your opinion may change again. Until then, I hope you're getting good ROI, and I'll admit that I'm a bit jealous as well.
imnotlost 6y ago
I did that in my teens, 20s, and early 30s. Looking back I say F** that, what a waste of my youth. I could've worked half and accomplished just as much, maybe more in different areas had I taken the time to explore not just more of the world but myself.
kenoph 6y ago
I think the question is not if you *can* work that many hours but if you *should* do it. Ofc there will be a minority of people that perhaps even enjoy it, but the vast majority is gonna suffer serious mental health issues. Not to mention that, as others pointed out, some people like to have a life outside of work. If you work 60 hours a week you either don't sleep much or your life is just working and sleeping.
ashtonkem 6y ago
You can work 55 hours a week indefinitely, but after about 8 weeks the loss of per hour production and increases in mistakes will obliterate any advantage that the extra hours might have conveyed. Don’t underestimate the social value of being busy as compared to actual, measurable outputs. In a lot of high paced environments the former is more important than the latter.
the_only_law 6y ago
I could probably manage that for something I really cared about for a short term amount of time, but the average job as a wage slave I just don’t care about that much.
6gvONxR4sf7o 6y ago
Why spend all your focus hours on work?
fatnoah 6y ago
>I think personally I have a capacity of 55-60 focused hours, and some people might have more, maintainable indefinitely. I think you hit the nail on the head about it being a personal situation. I'm the type of person that has trouble relaxing when things are not "complete" and I have the capacity to go deep and lose myself when working. As a result, I've had no problem with getting 8+ hours of focus time in a workday. I'm able to either find a quiet spot in the office and/or put on my headphones and block out the world to get stuff done. I derive huge satisfaction from being able to do that. Since moving to management, my time is much more meeting-heavy, but when time is available, I've been able to go deep and still get 20+ hours of deep focus a week. Fast forward to WFH, and I'm having performance issues for the first time in my 20+ year career. Instead of quick hallway conversations that are over and done and held on an ad-hoc basis, meetings have to be scheduled or work done in longer-running messaging threads. On top of that, having a teenager with ADHD struggling through school is a constant source of interruption, and I'm lucky to get 8 hours of focused time in a week. I'm miserable and will be the first one back when my office opens.
vsareto 6y ago
I mean, I could do 60 hrs a week with stimulants, but not without. Some people just have a lot more natural capacity, but who knows if it's trainable or even worth it to maintain for someone that doesn't naturally have it.

by lummmm 6y ago

asutekku 6y ago

The question is, is that sustainable on the long term mental health wise.

hh3k0 6y ago
Not just mental health but health in general. That said, would it really be desirable? There's no work-life balance as long as we work 5 days a week and rest 2, imo. > The Dalai Lama, when asked what surprised him most about humanity, he said: > “Man. Because he sacrifices his health in order to make money. Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health.
- Hydraulix989 6y ago
  What's the alternative? Being broke isn't fun either.
whizzter 6y ago
I think that depends a bit on personality, place/time in life, etc. I could easily pull those hours in my early 20s,etc but nowadays I have family and other things so if I do those hours I'll be behind with other things so in addition to needing a bit of extra rest as I'm older, I'll also be in a "todo-deficit" that needs to be caught up with making for more stress in the near/middle term.
fizx 6y ago
Yup, also, as someone who's done sustained 60+ (maybe even a month of 80+), there's very little room for creativity. It works ok for pursuing the solution to that one clear, looming problem. I much prefer 5hrs/day of focus, arriving at the office refreshed, excited, and creative.

sudosysgen 6y ago

Have you tried to measure if this is true for you? The idea that one can't focus for 40 hours isn't simply based on feeling, but evidence.

mattm 6y ago
Yeah from what I've read, people who work longer feel more productive but in reality they're less productive. I would guess it's from your stress hormones constantly being engaged. This also jives with my experience noticing colleagues. The least productive people I've worked with have worked the longest hours.

lm28469 6y ago

> I think personally I have a capacity of 55-60 focused hours, and some people might have more, maintainable indefinitely. Some people also have a life out of the office and "work" in this out of work life.

dstick 6y ago

Was it your startup? Were you vested? Or was it someone else's and were you paid for your time?

Cthulhu_ 6y ago

While I'm sure this is true, it really depends on whether it's your business, how much of the product is 'yours', etc. Most people however work for a salary and don't feel like hours invested equals return on investment. The latter is one of the main causes of burn-out; forcing yourself to spend hours and energy on something that does not have good return on investment. Setbacks weigh more heavily. I think that in a few years your opinion may change again. Until then, I hope you're getting good ROI, and I'll admit that I'm a bit jealous as well.

imnotlost 6y ago

I did that in my teens, 20s, and early 30s. Looking back I say F** that, what a waste of my youth. I could've worked half and accomplished just as much, maybe more in different areas had I taken the time to explore not just more of the world but myself.

kenoph 6y ago

I think the question is not if you *can* work that many hours but if you *should* do it. Ofc there will be a minority of people that perhaps even enjoy it, but the vast majority is gonna suffer serious mental health issues. Not to mention that, as others pointed out, some people like to have a life outside of work. If you work 60 hours a week you either don't sleep much or your life is just working and sleeping.

ashtonkem 6y ago

You can work 55 hours a week indefinitely, but after about 8 weeks the loss of per hour production and increases in mistakes will obliterate any advantage that the extra hours might have conveyed. Don’t underestimate the social value of being busy as compared to actual, measurable outputs. In a lot of high paced environments the former is more important than the latter.

the_only_law 6y ago

I could probably manage that for something I really cared about for a short term amount of time, but the average job as a wage slave I just don’t care about that much.

6gvONxR4sf7o 6y ago

Why spend all your focus hours on work?

fatnoah 6y ago

>I think personally I have a capacity of 55-60 focused hours, and some people might have more, maintainable indefinitely. I think you hit the nail on the head about it being a personal situation. I'm the type of person that has trouble relaxing when things are not "complete" and I have the capacity to go deep and lose myself when working. As a result, I've had no problem with getting 8+ hours of focus time in a workday. I'm able to either find a quiet spot in the office and/or put on my headphones and block out the world to get stuff done. I derive huge satisfaction from being able to do that. Since moving to management, my time is much more meeting-heavy, but when time is available, I've been able to go deep and still get 20+ hours of deep focus a week. Fast forward to WFH, and I'm having performance issues for the first time in my 20+ year career. Instead of quick hallway conversations that are over and done and held on an ad-hoc basis, meetings have to be scheduled or work done in longer-running messaging threads. On top of that, having a teenager with ADHD struggling through school is a constant source of interruption, and I'm lucky to get 8 hours of focused time in a week. I'm miserable and will be the first one back when my office opens.

vsareto 6y ago

I mean, I could do 60 hrs a week with stimulants, but not without. Some people just have a lot more natural capacity, but who knows if it's trainable or even worth it to maintain for someone that doesn't naturally have it.