4 ms·

How is that K8s fault?

by klohto 6y ago

hinkley 6y ago
By that reasoning, how is anything ever anybody's fault? Caveat emptor, my product might not be fit for purpose, and it's your own damned fault if you think it is. Consumer protection? What's that?
- klohto 6y ago
  What? Take some damn responsibility for your decision and stop blaming them on the tools. You solely decided to migrate to K8s while Jenkins was working fine and you solely couldn’t manage a cluster with 6 nodes. That’s your responsibility that the tool you have chosen isn’t fit for your purpose.
  - hinkley 6y ago
    In every crowd you will find a set of loud victim blamers. Take some responsibility for your tools instead of getting defensive worrying that if someone actually yells at one tool author they're coming for you next. I work my butt off to write good tools and half the time when someone comes to me about a problem, they're still right. We have a giant Dancing Bear problem in our industry. We sit around hand wringing about all of the bad things people do out there but we never stop to think that it's environmental. Children with fucked up parents become fucked up adults. You surround them with chaos and you get more chaos. You surround them with pain and you get more pain. If you put developers in an environment where garbage tools are not only tolerated but are aggressively defended, what have they been inspired to produce? What can you expect them to produce? More garbage. So we go 'round and 'round victim blaming and never owning our part in this cycle of violence.
    - sangnoir 6y ago
      > In every crowd you will find a set of loud victim blamers. I think the line has to be drawn somewhere on whether someone is a victim, or are complicit in their own suffering. If someone steps in doggy-doo on a walk, that's unfortunate and they might actually be a victim. However, if someone says "Me and my team have been stepping on doggy-doo everyday for the past 5 months", they are no longer victims, unless someone is coercing them into doing that against their will; and I will have some questions to ask their (technical) leadership.
  - hinkley 6y ago
    At any given moment, half of developers have less that 5 years of experience. I'm not just taking responsibility for my actions, I have to take responsibility for theirs, too. It's expected, but it would be the right thing to do even if it's not. Glitchy, dangerous tools make it difficult to grow other people into senior positions, where they can take responsibility for their own decisions. Every bad tool I use slows the process of creating a peer down.
  - jacques_chester 6y ago
    > You solely decided to migrate to K8s A note: this person is different from the GP poster.
    - hinkley 6y ago
      It hardly matters. Every other industry has tools with finer tolerances than anything they produce. Except this one. Then we blame each other for the quality of our output. It's madness of the first degree.
      - jacques_chester 6y ago
        > Every other industry has tools with finer tolerances than anything they produce. Except this one. I agree with this, actually, but I wanted to point out that there were some crossed wires.
TruthWillHurt 6y ago
Complicated, requires a lot of configuration, immature cloud managed service. one might say it's a step back from a PaaS offer like CF.

How is that K8s fault?

by klohto 6y ago

How is that K8s fault?

By that reasoning, how is anything ever anybody's fault? Caveat emptor, my product might not be fit for purpose, and it's your own damned fault if you think it is. Consumer protection? What's that?

klohto 6y ago
What? Take some damn responsibility for your decision and stop blaming them on the tools. You solely decided to migrate to K8s while Jenkins was working fine and you solely couldn’t manage a cluster with 6 nodes. That’s your responsibility that the tool you have chosen isn’t fit for your purpose.
- hinkley 6y ago
  In every crowd you will find a set of loud victim blamers. Take some responsibility for your tools instead of getting defensive worrying that if someone actually yells at one tool author they're coming for you next. I work my butt off to write good tools and half the time when someone comes to me about a problem, they're still right. We have a giant Dancing Bear problem in our industry. We sit around hand wringing about all of the bad things people do out there but we never stop to think that it's environmental. Children with fucked up parents become fucked up adults. You surround them with chaos and you get more chaos. You surround them with pain and you get more pain. If you put developers in an environment where garbage tools are not only tolerated but are aggressively defended, what have they been inspired to produce? What can you expect them to produce? More garbage. So we go 'round and 'round victim blaming and never owning our part in this cycle of violence.
  - sangnoir 6y ago
    > In every crowd you will find a set of loud victim blamers. I think the line has to be drawn somewhere on whether someone is a victim, or are complicit in their own suffering. If someone steps in doggy-doo on a walk, that's unfortunate and they might actually be a victim. However, if someone says "Me and my team have been stepping on doggy-doo everyday for the past 5 months", they are no longer victims, unless someone is coercing them into doing that against their will; and I will have some questions to ask their (technical) leadership.
- hinkley 6y ago
  At any given moment, half of developers have less that 5 years of experience. I'm not just taking responsibility for my actions, I have to take responsibility for theirs, too. It's expected, but it would be the right thing to do even if it's not. Glitchy, dangerous tools make it difficult to grow other people into senior positions, where they can take responsibility for their own decisions. Every bad tool I use slows the process of creating a peer down.
- jacques_chester 6y ago
  > You solely decided to migrate to K8s A note: this person is different from the GP poster.
  - hinkley 6y ago
    It hardly matters. Every other industry has tools with finer tolerances than anything they produce. Except this one. Then we blame each other for the quality of our output. It's madness of the first degree.
    - jacques_chester 6y ago
      > Every other industry has tools with finer tolerances than anything they produce. Except this one. I agree with this, actually, but I wanted to point out that there were some crossed wires.

TruthWillHurt 6y ago

Complicated, requires a lot of configuration, immature cloud managed service. one might say it's a step back from a PaaS offer like CF.