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Indeed, it's almost a meme at this point how many people on r/AskHistorians ask the same questions about the Roman Empire repeatedly yet it gets a fraction of t

Indeed, it's almost a meme at this point how many people on r/AskHistorians ask the same questions about the Roman Empire repeatedly yet it gets a fraction of the questions (or interest) in the Islamic empires. The entire Middle Ages and Renaissance were sharply defined by the Western response to the Islamic empires of the region, from the Reconquista to the Crusades.

jcranmer 6y ago
Don't forget the rise of the Carolingian dynasty is driven in part by their wars against the Muslims.
- Karrot_Kream 6y ago
  Yup! The Muslims left a huge mark on everything in that time period.
  - 29athrowaway 6y ago
    They were the torchbearers of knowledge during that period of time. After the Siege of Baghdad and the Reconquista, that torch was passed to us.
- edgyquant 6y ago
  Not only is Charles Martel (and to a lesser extent, his father who seemed to be a nobody before taking over Francia) one of histories absolute badasses, but the Carolingian Renaissance basically created the Catholic Church as we know it (and as we think about it in history) and brought writing back to the mainstream in Europe which eventually allowed what we know as the Renaissance to even take off. It’s a shame that outside of historical circles and the well read nobody knows who Charlemagne is, or they know he was a person but have no idea what he did. To me the “Dark Ages” are just as, if not more, fascinating that the Imperial era of Rome. I also do think that (Dark Ages) is a good term if applied a little earlier to right after the fall of Rome until the rise of Charlemagne.
  - davidgay 6y ago
    > It’s a shame that outside of historical circles and the well read nobody knows who Charlemagne is Except for all the French, and neighbouring French-speaking countries... (and probably other European countries, but I wasn't exposed to their education system).
    - emteycz 6y ago
      I'm on the other side of Germany (Czechia) and everybody knows who Charlemagne is, it's basic education here, you learn it in 6th grade. It's not that positive figure here though, Czech people didn't submit willingly to his empire.
      - edgyquant 6y ago
        Maybe it’s just an American thing, then.
  - roelschroeven 6y ago
    Charlemagne (or Karel de Grote as we call him in Dutch) is a pretty big deal in our history. We've learned about him in primary school and again, somewhat more in depth, in secondary school. Of course not everyone knows what he did. Most people aren't all that interested in history. You could say the same thing about most historical figures. As a quick guess Julius Caesar, Napoleon and Hitler are the most obvious of a pretty short list of counterexamples that are so well-known that almost everybody has at least some idea of what they did. Even that is going to be pretty limited: I suppose a lot of people here in Belgium are aware of Caesar because he came here to conquer, and provides the oldest written sources of our regions. But not a lot of people are aware of his role in the end of the Roman Republic.
    - edgyquant 6y ago
      I’d also argue that, in America at least, most people don’t know much about Napoleon either other than he was some guy who existed and was French.
  - 6y ago

jcranmer 6y ago

Don't forget the rise of the Carolingian dynasty is driven in part by their wars against the Muslims.

Karrot_Kream 6y ago
Yup! The Muslims left a huge mark on everything in that time period.
- 29athrowaway 6y ago
  They were the torchbearers of knowledge during that period of time. After the Siege of Baghdad and the Reconquista, that torch was passed to us.
edgyquant 6y ago
Not only is Charles Martel (and to a lesser extent, his father who seemed to be a nobody before taking over Francia) one of histories absolute badasses, but the Carolingian Renaissance basically created the Catholic Church as we know it (and as we think about it in history) and brought writing back to the mainstream in Europe which eventually allowed what we know as the Renaissance to even take off. It’s a shame that outside of historical circles and the well read nobody knows who Charlemagne is, or they know he was a person but have no idea what he did. To me the “Dark Ages” are just as, if not more, fascinating that the Imperial era of Rome. I also do think that (Dark Ages) is a good term if applied a little earlier to right after the fall of Rome until the rise of Charlemagne.
- davidgay 6y ago
  > It’s a shame that outside of historical circles and the well read nobody knows who Charlemagne is Except for all the French, and neighbouring French-speaking countries... (and probably other European countries, but I wasn't exposed to their education system).
  - emteycz 6y ago
    I'm on the other side of Germany (Czechia) and everybody knows who Charlemagne is, it's basic education here, you learn it in 6th grade. It's not that positive figure here though, Czech people didn't submit willingly to his empire.
    - edgyquant 6y ago
      Maybe it’s just an American thing, then.
- roelschroeven 6y ago
  Charlemagne (or Karel de Grote as we call him in Dutch) is a pretty big deal in our history. We've learned about him in primary school and again, somewhat more in depth, in secondary school. Of course not everyone knows what he did. Most people aren't all that interested in history. You could say the same thing about most historical figures. As a quick guess Julius Caesar, Napoleon and Hitler are the most obvious of a pretty short list of counterexamples that are so well-known that almost everybody has at least some idea of what they did. Even that is going to be pretty limited: I suppose a lot of people here in Belgium are aware of Caesar because he came here to conquer, and provides the oldest written sources of our regions. But not a lot of people are aware of his role in the end of the Roman Republic.
  - edgyquant 6y ago
    I’d also argue that, in America at least, most people don’t know much about Napoleon either other than he was some guy who existed and was French.
- 6y ago