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And to go along with that, the Renaissance was actually an incredibly violent and turbulent time. https://www.exurbe.com/black-death-covid-and-why-we-keep-tell

And to go along with that, the Renaissance was actually an incredibly violent and turbulent time. https://www.exurbe.com/black-death-covid-and-why-we-keep-telling-the-myth-of-a-renaissance-golden-age-and-bad-middle-ages/ https://www.exurbe.com/black-death-covid-and-why-we-keep-tel... is a good post about that, and the Dark Ages myth. There's a lot of propaganda from this time period that people still believe today because it was used to justify a lot of the European nationalism of the 19th and 20th centuries.

throwaway2048 6y ago
Yep, the 30 years war was one of the bloodiest. most devastating conflicts in human history, and had more political twists and turns than a George RR Martin novel. It might have killed over 8 million people.
- baybal2 6y ago
  Yet if it didn't you would've probably still lived under some Habsburg king.
  - anthk 6y ago
    As a Spaniard, it wouldn't do worse than the Borbon dinasty.
neuronic 6y ago
The atrocities and genocides that Europeans brought to the world for centuries should be focused on deeply. Context: I am European and disgusted with the way we treat our impact on the world. I think among the most striking examples here aside from the obvious one (Holocaust), is Belgium, because it just seems to slip under a lot of people's radar. Belgium has an evil, brutal and vile history, especially in relation to its colonialism and the included human rights violations which in my opinion are massive compared to the country's size and geopolitical abilities. Belgian citizens are oblivious, but at least slowly "waking up" as the BBC calls it [1]. To be clear, it's the system and leadership that I struggle with. Not the citizens. To this day, Belgian schools do not in any way teach that Belgium is solely responsible for the Rwandan genocide in the early 90s. It was the sick Belgians who separated fake ethnic groups in Rwanda in the first place, depending on how ethnically white the shape of your skull appeared. And later they used these synthetic groups for political purposes and control. The Belgian government/leadership has a long history of inhuman behavior, violence and murder that goes nearly completely ignored within Europe and it sort of rubs me the wrong way. Guy Verhofstadt said 'I beg your pardon' once in Rwanda, and that was basically it. 800,000+ are dead and Belgium says 'sorry' once. What? Belgium isn't about chocolate, it's a country which is completely fine with not teaching its citizens about the common practice of chopping off children's arms for not meeting labor goals for the day. When Belgians travel to places like Rwanda they are dumbfounded by the realities of their own history. And those people want to tell China something about human rights, yelling from some tower in Brussels. It's breathtaking. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53017188 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53017188
- rolandog 6y ago
  Hopefully, they can preach by example. They need to recognize their bad actions, compensate the affected parties, educate their people, AND call on other governments perpetuating crimes against humanity.
- PartiallyTyped 6y ago
  I have the same experience. Growing up in Greek schools, we learn early about our 'great ancestors', but every depiction is with rose coloured glasses. We are not taught about the atrocities of our ancestors and how the Greece the 'mother of all cultures' was infact filled with traitors and slavery, especially Athens. Our 'great' past is ,beat, almost literally into our heads. We named one of the worst warlords in history 'Great' and instead of talking about the slavery and death he brought, we call it 'liberation of the barbarians', with 'barbarians' meaning all who are not greeks (::winky face::). When it came to the Romans, we were still the winners because conquered them with our culture. The worst of all is that this becomes so ingrown, even in young people, that for many it becomes a corner-store of their identity; any critical discussion is met with attacks because it literally shakes the foundation of their world.
- secondcoming 6y ago
  > fake ethnic groups in Rwanda There were two distinct tribes in Rwanda, the Tutsi and the Hutus. It's quite common for some Africans to identify by tribe. There is a great/depressing book by a UN general who was in Rwanda at the time. [0] > human rights violations To be pedantic, there were no human rights violations as there was really no legal concept of human rights at all. The what-is-now Chinese were slaughtering each other long before any White Man set foot in the place. [0] https://www.amazon.co.uk/Shake-Hands-Devil-Failure-Humanity/dp/0099478935/ref=asc_df_0099478935/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=311004790924&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13167540259377520467&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1006886&hvtargid=pla-465354625131&psc=1&th=1&psc=1 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Shake-Hands-Devil-Failure-Humanity/...
  - bildung 6y ago
    No, exactly these tribes were invented (as culturally/ racially distinct) by the colonial rulers, first German, then Belgian. Interestingly this is part of the German wikipedia article, but not the English speaking one: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruanda#Ethnische_Zusammensetzung https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruanda#Ethnische_Zusammensetzu... Edit: It is mentioned a bit in the article about the Hamite theory (a racist theory that formed the academic legitimization for many colonial decisions in Africa): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamites https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamites

throwaway2048 6y ago

Yep, the 30 years war was one of the bloodiest. most devastating conflicts in human history, and had more political twists and turns than a George RR Martin novel. It might have killed over 8 million people.

baybal2 6y ago
Yet if it didn't you would've probably still lived under some Habsburg king.
- anthk 6y ago
  As a Spaniard, it wouldn't do worse than the Borbon dinasty.

neuronic 6y ago

The atrocities and genocides that Europeans brought to the world for centuries should be focused on deeply. Context: I am European and disgusted with the way we treat our impact on the world. I think among the most striking examples here aside from the obvious one (Holocaust), is Belgium, because it just seems to slip under a lot of people's radar. Belgium has an evil, brutal and vile history, especially in relation to its colonialism and the included human rights violations which in my opinion are massive compared to the country's size and geopolitical abilities. Belgian citizens are oblivious, but at least slowly "waking up" as the BBC calls it [1]. To be clear, it's the system and leadership that I struggle with. Not the citizens. To this day, Belgian schools do not in any way teach that Belgium is solely responsible for the Rwandan genocide in the early 90s. It was the sick Belgians who separated fake ethnic groups in Rwanda in the first place, depending on how ethnically white the shape of your skull appeared. And later they used these synthetic groups for political purposes and control. The Belgian government/leadership has a long history of inhuman behavior, violence and murder that goes nearly completely ignored within Europe and it sort of rubs me the wrong way. Guy Verhofstadt said 'I beg your pardon' once in Rwanda, and that was basically it. 800,000+ are dead and Belgium says 'sorry' once. What? Belgium isn't about chocolate, it's a country which is completely fine with not teaching its citizens about the common practice of chopping off children's arms for not meeting labor goals for the day. When Belgians travel to places like Rwanda they are dumbfounded by the realities of their own history. And those people want to tell China something about human rights, yelling from some tower in Brussels. It's breathtaking. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53017188 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53017188

rolandog 6y ago
Hopefully, they can preach by example. They need to recognize their bad actions, compensate the affected parties, educate their people, AND call on other governments perpetuating crimes against humanity.
PartiallyTyped 6y ago
I have the same experience. Growing up in Greek schools, we learn early about our 'great ancestors', but every depiction is with rose coloured glasses. We are not taught about the atrocities of our ancestors and how the Greece the 'mother of all cultures' was infact filled with traitors and slavery, especially Athens. Our 'great' past is ,beat, almost literally into our heads. We named one of the worst warlords in history 'Great' and instead of talking about the slavery and death he brought, we call it 'liberation of the barbarians', with 'barbarians' meaning all who are not greeks (::winky face::). When it came to the Romans, we were still the winners because conquered them with our culture. The worst of all is that this becomes so ingrown, even in young people, that for many it becomes a corner-store of their identity; any critical discussion is met with attacks because it literally shakes the foundation of their world.
secondcoming 6y ago
> fake ethnic groups in Rwanda There were two distinct tribes in Rwanda, the Tutsi and the Hutus. It's quite common for some Africans to identify by tribe. There is a great/depressing book by a UN general who was in Rwanda at the time. [0] > human rights violations To be pedantic, there were no human rights violations as there was really no legal concept of human rights at all. The what-is-now Chinese were slaughtering each other long before any White Man set foot in the place. [0] https://www.amazon.co.uk/Shake-Hands-Devil-Failure-Humanity/dp/0099478935/ref=asc_df_0099478935/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=311004790924&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13167540259377520467&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1006886&hvtargid=pla-465354625131&psc=1&th=1&psc=1 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Shake-Hands-Devil-Failure-Humanity/...
- bildung 6y ago
  No, exactly these tribes were invented (as culturally/ racially distinct) by the colonial rulers, first German, then Belgian. Interestingly this is part of the German wikipedia article, but not the English speaking one: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruanda#Ethnische_Zusammensetzung https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruanda#Ethnische_Zusammensetzu... Edit: It is mentioned a bit in the article about the Hamite theory (a racist theory that formed the academic legitimization for many colonial decisions in Africa): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamites https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamites