5 ms·

Isn't this the racist trope on sites like 4chan, which races carry more of these genes.

by dukeofdoom 6y ago

koheripbal 6y ago
Most science on human evolution is considered racist these days.
- AlotOfReading 6y ago
  Have you worked in anthropology professionally or at a graduate+ level? My experience is exactly the opposite. The views typically espoused by 'racists' (like the concept of biological races itself) are extraordinarily far from modern anthropology. Is there something you're specifically referring to?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - Mediterraneo10 6y ago
    Much further along in human history than the Neanderthals, but I can give some examples of the OP's claim from my own experience in academia. Over the last decade, genetic studies have broadly confirmed the mainstream view of the spread of the Indo-European languages, that Proto-Indo-European existed in the Pontic Steppe and the Indo-European languages were spread in various directions by populations that can now be identified not just archaeologically but also genetically. This is seen as racist by many Indians, because the popular view in India is that Sanskrit is the perfect, divine language, and all the Indo-European languages descend somehow from Sanskrit speakers leaving India for Central Asia and Europe, and spreading their civilization along the way. Also, the uninformed layman may assume that any discussion of “Indo-European genes” is a rehabilitation of Aryan-race fantasies from the early 20th century. Genetic studies have also sparked some disputes among indigenous peoples of the Americas, because group X says it had been there since time immemorial, but genetic findings find that the earliest buried inhabitants are genetically unrelated to the present people.
    - AlotOfReading 6y ago
      Those are interesting examples. My experiences in the Southwest with the latter are that many indigenous people make a distinction between spiritual and scientific knowledge, so these aren't necessarily in conflict for them. I can also reasonably imagine how someone might not, particularly if you're referring to Anzick-1 like I suspect. Thanks
    - yongjik 6y ago
      > This is seen as racist by many Indians, because the popular view in India is that Sanskrit is the perfect, divine language, and all the Indo-European languages descend somehow from Sanskrit speakers ... This is at the same level as "White supremacists declare modern science as racist as it fails to uncover genetic superiority of white people." (If you prefer, replace "white" by your favorite ethnic group.)
    - godmode2019 6y ago
      I might be wrong but I spend a little time on this a few years ago. Indian nationalists don't like the invasion theory, which is a group of nomadic people invaded the Indus valley (yamnaya people: https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg24132230-200-story-of-most-murderous-people-of-all-time-revealed-in-ancient-dna/ https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg24132230-200-story-of...) These invaders brought the Vedas (sanscript) which become modern day Hinduism and the dominant culture. The nationals don't want this to be the case, they believe light skin people came from India (could be wrong as I have never meet one of these nationalists). Khan academy does a whole lesson in this in his ancient history course. I think the yamnaya are very interesting people who basically wiped out all of the males in Europe. DNA shows most Europeans are from 5 males 5000 years ago when the Yamnaya invaded Europe from the step (likely Ukraine). Can provider more links if anyone is interested. Other things like the ability to process milk as an adult and the technology of domestication of horses added to their war ability. The people in Europe before this were called the European hunter gathers, which were probably the ones with the high percent Neanderthal DNA.
      - yesenadam 6y ago
        > Can provider more links if anyone is interested. Yes, please, thanks. Can't have too many links! p.s. I can only read the first couple of paragraphs of that link, it wants me to subscribe to read more.
  - koheripbal 6y ago
    > like the concept of biological races itself There's a lot of misinformation about this, and it often conflates the debate about DNA diversity with a semantic debate about the word 'race'. Leaving aside the notion of 'race', there is ample evidence of clusters humans with more shared DNA that broadly lines up with what humans usually perceive as 'race'. As evidence of that, you can do a genetic test and with high confidence predict what race the subject SELF-identifies as. ...but that 2nd part is less important than the recognition that there are clusters of humans with slightly different DNA. Irrespective of how they identify, these differences provide insight into the relative function of those different genes. These differences should be studied, but are not because the notion that there might be differences between humans risks reinforcing racist ideologies. This is academia only researching the lowest common denominator of scientific good.
randomopining 6y ago
You can actually just look at the factual information and learn what really happened, without any of their bs or your bs.
Buge 6y ago
4chan has a lot of racist tropes. There's usually no reason to bring them up.

Isn't this the racist trope on sites like 4chan, which races carry more of these genes.

koheripbal 6y ago

Most science on human evolution is considered racist these days.

AlotOfReading 6y ago
Have you worked in anthropology professionally or at a graduate+ level? My experience is exactly the opposite. The views typically espoused by 'racists' (like the concept of biological races itself) are extraordinarily far from modern anthropology. Is there something you're specifically referring to?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- Mediterraneo10 6y ago
  Much further along in human history than the Neanderthals, but I can give some examples of the OP's claim from my own experience in academia. Over the last decade, genetic studies have broadly confirmed the mainstream view of the spread of the Indo-European languages, that Proto-Indo-European existed in the Pontic Steppe and the Indo-European languages were spread in various directions by populations that can now be identified not just archaeologically but also genetically. This is seen as racist by many Indians, because the popular view in India is that Sanskrit is the perfect, divine language, and all the Indo-European languages descend somehow from Sanskrit speakers leaving India for Central Asia and Europe, and spreading their civilization along the way. Also, the uninformed layman may assume that any discussion of “Indo-European genes” is a rehabilitation of Aryan-race fantasies from the early 20th century. Genetic studies have also sparked some disputes among indigenous peoples of the Americas, because group X says it had been there since time immemorial, but genetic findings find that the earliest buried inhabitants are genetically unrelated to the present people.
  - AlotOfReading 6y ago
    Those are interesting examples. My experiences in the Southwest with the latter are that many indigenous people make a distinction between spiritual and scientific knowledge, so these aren't necessarily in conflict for them. I can also reasonably imagine how someone might not, particularly if you're referring to Anzick-1 like I suspect. Thanks
  - yongjik 6y ago
    > This is seen as racist by many Indians, because the popular view in India is that Sanskrit is the perfect, divine language, and all the Indo-European languages descend somehow from Sanskrit speakers ... This is at the same level as "White supremacists declare modern science as racist as it fails to uncover genetic superiority of white people." (If you prefer, replace "white" by your favorite ethnic group.)
  - godmode2019 6y ago
    I might be wrong but I spend a little time on this a few years ago. Indian nationalists don't like the invasion theory, which is a group of nomadic people invaded the Indus valley (yamnaya people: https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg24132230-200-story-of-most-murderous-people-of-all-time-revealed-in-ancient-dna/ https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg24132230-200-story-of...) These invaders brought the Vedas (sanscript) which become modern day Hinduism and the dominant culture. The nationals don't want this to be the case, they believe light skin people came from India (could be wrong as I have never meet one of these nationalists). Khan academy does a whole lesson in this in his ancient history course. I think the yamnaya are very interesting people who basically wiped out all of the males in Europe. DNA shows most Europeans are from 5 males 5000 years ago when the Yamnaya invaded Europe from the step (likely Ukraine). Can provider more links if anyone is interested. Other things like the ability to process milk as an adult and the technology of domestication of horses added to their war ability. The people in Europe before this were called the European hunter gathers, which were probably the ones with the high percent Neanderthal DNA.
    - yesenadam 6y ago
      > Can provider more links if anyone is interested. Yes, please, thanks. Can't have too many links! p.s. I can only read the first couple of paragraphs of that link, it wants me to subscribe to read more.
- koheripbal 6y ago
  > like the concept of biological races itself There's a lot of misinformation about this, and it often conflates the debate about DNA diversity with a semantic debate about the word 'race'. Leaving aside the notion of 'race', there is ample evidence of clusters humans with more shared DNA that broadly lines up with what humans usually perceive as 'race'. As evidence of that, you can do a genetic test and with high confidence predict what race the subject SELF-identifies as. ...but that 2nd part is less important than the recognition that there are clusters of humans with slightly different DNA. Irrespective of how they identify, these differences provide insight into the relative function of those different genes. These differences should be studied, but are not because the notion that there might be differences between humans risks reinforcing racist ideologies. This is academia only researching the lowest common denominator of scientific good.

randomopining 6y ago

You can actually just look at the factual information and learn what really happened, without any of their bs or your bs.

Buge 6y ago

4chan has a lot of racist tropes. There's usually no reason to bring them up.