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> There are also efforts making good progress I agree but in the grand scheme of currencies and payment infrastructures they barely got out the door. I believ

> There are also efforts making good progress I agree but in the grand scheme of currencies and payment infrastructures they barely got out the door. I believe today and for the foreseeable future BTC will be adequate almost exclusively for speculative traders and people who need legal deniability. Most people throw around narrow interpretations for why BTC would be good and they're all good explanations if you look just at selected arguments. Take the "BTC is great as a currency in countries with steady high inflation" stance which might hold if you consider only a really narrow set of set of BTC criteria. I'm not ruling out anything for some future really. As a personal opinion I believe there's room for e-coins (I'll stay away from the "crypto" nomenclature as they may not rely on a blockchain or crypto per se) but BTC in particular has no real room in a CB for more than a fad (also speculative). Think at the central mandate of a CB: price stability and inflation. Controlling these is quintessentially antithetical to BTC as a main currency, or as a currency. BTC as a decentralized currency takes central banking out of the equation. Or conversely central banks take decentralized currencies out of the equation. So even if you think of it pragmatically, no government or central bank (since they should be as independent from each other as it gets) would allow replacing the country's currency with BTC both for "selfish" reasons - they'd lose control. But maybe even more importantly for national security reasons. No country wants a coin which can be sent spinning just because some CEO (or worse, your enemy) decided to pull a shady maneuver for personal gain. The kind of control currencies need to be fit for the purpose of a general, national currency for your citizens simply precludes using BTC at that scale. Should BTC ever become as "big" as a real national currency I'm certain it would show many of the same cracks. Except the small players (average Joe) would have nobody to turn to when things go sour. No central authority, no central responsibility. You see this whenever there's a new hack or financial maneuver that parts people from their hard earned cryptomoney how they suddenly lose that blind faith in "the coin that governments can't control" and start asking for regulation. You can only regulate when you have control.

lazide 6y ago
First part of your argument - Isn’t this literally the argument against every new anything? Second part - I think you’re also misunderstanding? Central banks hold gold and other countries currencies for international clearing, export/import, and national security reasons. A central bank is not holding them for price stability and inflation control. Only a small handful of central banks (the fed) meaningfully target those goals, and if they do it is for their own fiat currency. If you think a central bank is going to hesitate to hold a useful asset for international exchange purposes if a ‘ceo or worse your enemy’ could send it spinning, you’re not paying attention? China’s central bank holds at least $1 trillion US dollars for instance [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign-exchange_reserves_of_China#Size https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign-exchange_reserves_of...], along with Euros and every other currency useful for it’s goals. There is a huge variety of foreign reserves currencies in wide use [https://data.imf.org/?sk=E6A5F467-C14B-4AA8-9F6D-5A09EC4E62A4 https://data.imf.org/?sk=E6A5F467-C14B-4AA8-9F6D-5A09EC4E62A...] covering everything from Chinese renmenbi to Swiss Francs and UKP. All of these change dramatically relative to each other on short notice, all are enemies or economic competitors with some selection of people using them as reserve currencies, and there is no central authority to go crying to if one of them defaults on their debts or inflates their currencies. And third part - I’m not saying it’s likely any government would replace it’s fiat currency with BTC or any other currency out of it’s control. I’m saying Zimbabwe and many other places don’t really run on their local currency, they run on what people use (currently dollars in most cases, but some places BTC is getting traction) - because their gov’ts destroy the utility of the their local currencies and people can’t trust it.
- buran77 6y ago
  > First part of your argument - Isn’t this literally the argument against every new anything? Oh, that wasn't meant to be an argument against something new. As I said repeatedly, it's an argument against BTC as it exists now and as it will be for the foreseeable future. The expectations for a stable "national" currency are incompatible with the pillars of BTC. That was my original point. The Fed, the ECB, the Central Bank of China all have price stability and inflation as a mandate, of course for their own currency. And this should already hint that they want control over their national currency. Gold and other countries' currencies are explicitly things that are regulated by the respective countries and/or "relatively" stable. I'm not aware of any national currency as volatile as BTC. They're all substantially more more resilient to outside manipulation because they're regulated and traceable. Governments and Central Banks don't want their country or citizens to rely on a currency they don't have any control over especially in places like US, EU, China, Japan. Just think of the UK refusing to give up the GBP to adopt the EUR because it involved losing control of the currency. So while I can imagine a bank (central or commercial) holding BTC one day as an asset, I'm having a really hard time seeing the "unregulated currency BTC" being used as a "national currency" in any place that matters. > If you think a central bank is going to hesitate to hold a useful asset for international exchange purposes if a ‘ceo or worse your enemy’ could send it spinning, you’re not paying attention? If you were to ask Mario Draghi or Christine Lagarde they would tell you no CB should hold BTC. I'm not saying I can see the future but I'm trying to understand what you know and they don't. When China deliberately weakened the yuan to gain an advantage in the trade war with US (to boost exports) it was immediately noticed and attributed and that could be (was?) used as justification for sanctions and tariffs. Bitcoin is decentralized and pseudo-anonymous. > I’m saying Zimbabwe and many other places don’t really run on their local currency, they run on what people use (currently dollars in most cases, but some places BTC is getting traction) - because their gov’ts destroy the utility of the their local currencies and people can’t trust it. So they rely on a well regulated currency like the USD. How would BTC improve on this? The USD is stable enough for Zimbabwe to use because it's under central control. Taking more practical approach for the regular person, at the absolute minimum a currency is supposed to come with consumer protections that are derived from regulation. BTC was specifically designed to curtail regulations. This won't be fixed by faster or more efficient networks. That can't be "fixed" at all because it's one of BTC's tenets: stay unregulated and out of gov't control. So your citizens are not only using an unregulated currency that offers them no protections, they're also extremely vulnerable to outside manipulation. BTC is an unstable coin, that cannot be regulated to offer consumer protections or complying with anti money laundering laws. In theory this recommends it to speculators and people who are looking to be shielded from the law. The reality just happens to match the theory to a T. Some e-currency will surely fit the bill one day though but I'm not entirely sure if there's one to be both regulated and unregulated at the same time, to make everyone happy.

lazide 6y ago

First part of your argument - Isn’t this literally the argument against every new anything? Second part - I think you’re also misunderstanding? Central banks hold gold and other countries currencies for international clearing, export/import, and national security reasons. A central bank is not holding them for price stability and inflation control. Only a small handful of central banks (the fed) meaningfully target those goals, and if they do it is for their own fiat currency. If you think a central bank is going to hesitate to hold a useful asset for international exchange purposes if a ‘ceo or worse your enemy’ could send it spinning, you’re not paying attention? China’s central bank holds at least $1 trillion US dollars for instance [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign-exchange_reserves_of_China#Size https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign-exchange_reserves_of...], along with Euros and every other currency useful for it’s goals. There is a huge variety of foreign reserves currencies in wide use [https://data.imf.org/?sk=E6A5F467-C14B-4AA8-9F6D-5A09EC4E62A4 https://data.imf.org/?sk=E6A5F467-C14B-4AA8-9F6D-5A09EC4E62A...] covering everything from Chinese renmenbi to Swiss Francs and UKP. All of these change dramatically relative to each other on short notice, all are enemies or economic competitors with some selection of people using them as reserve currencies, and there is no central authority to go crying to if one of them defaults on their debts or inflates their currencies. And third part - I’m not saying it’s likely any government would replace it’s fiat currency with BTC or any other currency out of it’s control. I’m saying Zimbabwe and many other places don’t really run on their local currency, they run on what people use (currently dollars in most cases, but some places BTC is getting traction) - because their gov’ts destroy the utility of the their local currencies and people can’t trust it.

buran77 6y ago
> First part of your argument - Isn’t this literally the argument against every new anything? Oh, that wasn't meant to be an argument against something new. As I said repeatedly, it's an argument against BTC as it exists now and as it will be for the foreseeable future. The expectations for a stable "national" currency are incompatible with the pillars of BTC. That was my original point. The Fed, the ECB, the Central Bank of China all have price stability and inflation as a mandate, of course for their own currency. And this should already hint that they want control over their national currency. Gold and other countries' currencies are explicitly things that are regulated by the respective countries and/or "relatively" stable. I'm not aware of any national currency as volatile as BTC. They're all substantially more more resilient to outside manipulation because they're regulated and traceable. Governments and Central Banks don't want their country or citizens to rely on a currency they don't have any control over especially in places like US, EU, China, Japan. Just think of the UK refusing to give up the GBP to adopt the EUR because it involved losing control of the currency. So while I can imagine a bank (central or commercial) holding BTC one day as an asset, I'm having a really hard time seeing the "unregulated currency BTC" being used as a "national currency" in any place that matters. > If you think a central bank is going to hesitate to hold a useful asset for international exchange purposes if a ‘ceo or worse your enemy’ could send it spinning, you’re not paying attention? If you were to ask Mario Draghi or Christine Lagarde they would tell you no CB should hold BTC. I'm not saying I can see the future but I'm trying to understand what you know and they don't. When China deliberately weakened the yuan to gain an advantage in the trade war with US (to boost exports) it was immediately noticed and attributed and that could be (was?) used as justification for sanctions and tariffs. Bitcoin is decentralized and pseudo-anonymous. > I’m saying Zimbabwe and many other places don’t really run on their local currency, they run on what people use (currently dollars in most cases, but some places BTC is getting traction) - because their gov’ts destroy the utility of the their local currencies and people can’t trust it. So they rely on a well regulated currency like the USD. How would BTC improve on this? The USD is stable enough for Zimbabwe to use because it's under central control. Taking more practical approach for the regular person, at the absolute minimum a currency is supposed to come with consumer protections that are derived from regulation. BTC was specifically designed to curtail regulations. This won't be fixed by faster or more efficient networks. That can't be "fixed" at all because it's one of BTC's tenets: stay unregulated and out of gov't control. So your citizens are not only using an unregulated currency that offers them no protections, they're also extremely vulnerable to outside manipulation. BTC is an unstable coin, that cannot be regulated to offer consumer protections or complying with anti money laundering laws. In theory this recommends it to speculators and people who are looking to be shielded from the law. The reality just happens to match the theory to a T. Some e-currency will surely fit the bill one day though but I'm not entirely sure if there's one to be both regulated and unregulated at the same time, to make everyone happy.