13 ms·

Ok seems to me that a lot of people are missing the point entirely here... <insert zzzzzoooooooommmmmmm flying hand over the head motion here> Microsoft has al

by 51Cards 15y ago

Ok seems to me that a lot of people are missing the point entirely here... <insert zzzzzoooooooommmmmmm flying hand over the head motion here> Microsoft has always worked hard to make Windows as flexible as possible, hardware wise, functionality, etc. Some consider this a credit, some a detriment, but no matter what I consider it to be a huge technical challenge. Several people seem to be taking this from the perspective of an iPad attack which is a very narrow minded view of the possibilities here. What MS is doing here (and very wisely I think... IF they can pull it off) is to produce one OS that works cross hardware environment. Win 8 it seems to me CAN run like classic Win 7 (and earlier) supporting the plethora of existing Windows apps. This is a MUST for MS. But originally MS tried to make the old Windows UI touch friendly, which is a very bad approach. The existing Windows UI grew up around a mouse and keyboard and MS has finally realized it. You can't make it work for touch effectively, and so they are wisely separating the two. To solve the problem they are wrapping Windows in an OPTIONAL alternate touch designed UI for systems where that is the preferred interaction method. They have developed a new class of touch apps and a new way to manage the overall UI. But most importantly they have blended the two forms of personal computer interaction. This is BRILLIANT to me. You can now have one device, let's say a tablet, that you can use like a touch device. But you can ALSO sit it in a dock, with a keyboard and mouse and use it to replace your desktop PC including all those legacy apps and Office programs that are the standard. When done you undock and flip back to the touch UI to take it with you, but you still have access to all your documents. Microsoft has for the first time realized that the ultimate device will function in BOTH modes and to be efficient the OS on that device also needs two distinct methods of interaction. And this I think is what is brilliant. You'll never see an iPad as the primary device on an office desk in its current form and UI. Your accountant or DB admin or whatever will always be more productive with a keyboard and mouse when it comes to heavy "business" style applications. This is what the existing touch UI's can't provide. But a device that can run no compromise Office style apps, business apps, the millions of existing Windows apps in general... and then pick up and go with a nice touchscreen keyboard, touch UI, web browsing, etc... I know I've used the word a couple times but it's brilliant. I just hope their execution is up to their vision. Edit... my mind is running with the further possibilities... they will definitely cross up development between Win Phone and Win 8... so now Windows developers can target the mobile market and the largest desktop market with one app. I still don't see the future of Win Phone turning around but who knows, this could be a very smart move on MS's part to leverage their Windows developer base and established market.

Lewisham 15y ago
My feeling is that this is very much like the "Classic" support that Mac OS X had for a few iterations. Yes, you can run Classic apps, but you don't really want to. Apple themselves only just recently got iTunes from out of their Carbon compatibility layer, so calling Microsoft out for not getting a 10+ million line code base wrapped in a new UI in time for Windows 8 is pretty rich. That said, getting some form of Office Reader or something into the new UI would be nice. I am so, so, so glad that Microsoft has double-downed on Metro. Many other companies would have walked away, given the sales and the guffaws from their competitors. It honestly makes me respect them a whole lot. I also like the idea of the multifunctional machine, that can be the workhorse during the day and the bedroom tablet at night. I would not be surprised if we see something similar from Apple next year, but it depends on how far the iOS and Mac OS X codebases/kernels have drifted.
- zarify 15y ago
  +1 for the support on Metro. I think the design and interaction is great (and more importantly some nicely original thinking). One of the things that really impressed me with the demo video was the access to the file system from touch apps (and the use of open app resources as an extension of it). One of the things that I feel has been pretty detrimental to iOS is the removal of any direct access to the file system, meaning that apps can't share access to a file but have to have their own copies. I wasn't too thrilled to see traditional Windows apps sitting next door though. Yes it's taken Apple some time to get rid of some of their legacy support, but this looks like MS is unwilling to really try and move forward. Despite the backlash they would no doubt suffer for it, at some point soon they really need to put their foot down and say "No, you cannot run 1990s software on this operating system".
  - 51Cards 15y ago
    But see that's the thing... touch is not "forward". Touch is an alternate method of PC interaction which is good for day to day tasks but definitely not good for everything. This is exactly what I find impressive about this new concept, that it can function in a mode for "keyboard/mouse' (which is not going away for the foreseeable future), and it can function as a slick touch UI device. I can finger browse, flip pages in my e-book, buzz off a quick email, flip through songs, etc... but I can also work in a business mode with all the programs where keyboard/mouse is the proper UI choice. And I can do it on one device and share apps and files. Also MS's decision to maintain legacy support is their biggest asset. If MS suddenly cut off a huge portion of their past compatibility, and hence established application base, then there is a MUCH bigger risk people will jump ship to Linux or Mac since they need to change up their apps anyhow. Familiarity breeds loyalty, even if sometimes begrudgingly. They key is will the performance be reasonable on "mobile" hardware. The performance of portable hardware is advancing at a rapid pace but I'm not quite sure it's ready yet (even in a year from now) to run a desktop/touch merged Windows code base. That is where MS is taking a big gamble to me.

by 51Cards 15y ago

Lewisham 15y ago

My feeling is that this is very much like the "Classic" support that Mac OS X had for a few iterations. Yes, you can run Classic apps, but you don't really want to. Apple themselves only just recently got iTunes from out of their Carbon compatibility layer, so calling Microsoft out for not getting a 10+ million line code base wrapped in a new UI in time for Windows 8 is pretty rich. That said, getting some form of Office Reader or something into the new UI would be nice. I am so, so, so glad that Microsoft has double-downed on Metro. Many other companies would have walked away, given the sales and the guffaws from their competitors. It honestly makes me respect them a whole lot. I also like the idea of the multifunctional machine, that can be the workhorse during the day and the bedroom tablet at night. I would not be surprised if we see something similar from Apple next year, but it depends on how far the iOS and Mac OS X codebases/kernels have drifted.

zarify 15y ago
+1 for the support on Metro. I think the design and interaction is great (and more importantly some nicely original thinking). One of the things that really impressed me with the demo video was the access to the file system from touch apps (and the use of open app resources as an extension of it). One of the things that I feel has been pretty detrimental to iOS is the removal of any direct access to the file system, meaning that apps can't share access to a file but have to have their own copies. I wasn't too thrilled to see traditional Windows apps sitting next door though. Yes it's taken Apple some time to get rid of some of their legacy support, but this looks like MS is unwilling to really try and move forward. Despite the backlash they would no doubt suffer for it, at some point soon they really need to put their foot down and say "No, you cannot run 1990s software on this operating system".
- 51Cards 15y ago
  But see that's the thing... touch is not "forward". Touch is an alternate method of PC interaction which is good for day to day tasks but definitely not good for everything. This is exactly what I find impressive about this new concept, that it can function in a mode for "keyboard/mouse' (which is not going away for the foreseeable future), and it can function as a slick touch UI device. I can finger browse, flip pages in my e-book, buzz off a quick email, flip through songs, etc... but I can also work in a business mode with all the programs where keyboard/mouse is the proper UI choice. And I can do it on one device and share apps and files. Also MS's decision to maintain legacy support is their biggest asset. If MS suddenly cut off a huge portion of their past compatibility, and hence established application base, then there is a MUCH bigger risk people will jump ship to Linux or Mac since they need to change up their apps anyhow. Familiarity breeds loyalty, even if sometimes begrudgingly. They key is will the performance be reasonable on "mobile" hardware. The performance of portable hardware is advancing at a rapid pace but I'm not quite sure it's ready yet (even in a year from now) to run a desktop/touch merged Windows code base. That is where MS is taking a big gamble to me.