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Every government has taxes. Running the government isn’t free. The cost of living in a given society are the taxes and abiding by the system of laws it has.

by syops 6y ago

Every government has taxes. Running the government isn’t free. The cost of living in a given society are the taxes and abiding by the system of laws it has. In the U.S. you have the option of leaving if you find the cost too high. You willingly stay here and as such you ought to willingly pay the cost for doing so. Besides, are you certain the amount you pay in tax really ought to be considered yours? It’s strange perspective from my point of view. You appear to want all the benefits of living in the U.S. while not acknowledging that perhaps not all of your income ought to really be considered your money. This is the system we have developed for people to pay for the privilege of earning in this society.

exabrial 6y ago
I think it's absurd to defend the violent nature in which these funds are acquired, regardless of the outcome. The end does not justify the means.
- syops 6y ago
  It’s absurd, in my opinion, to think that the society that created the opportunities you have to earn money ought to be enjoyed by you at no cost. We can’t all be free loaders and leeches. Acting as if taxes are immoral is nonsensical.
  - Apocryphon 6y ago
    It's also incredibly ahistorical.
  - exabrial 6y ago
    It came at such a great cost in fact. The vast majority of your taxes are simply wasted. If the US Government were on Charity Navigator they would have a 0-star rating. It'a absurd to defend such a position, especially one rooted in a traditional of violence via arguments that were used to justify the enslavement of entire races.
    - syops 6y ago
      We aren’t talking about whether the tax rate should be lower or better spent. We are talking about whether or not they ought to exist at all. Bringing in, now, the fact that some are wasted is not relevant to the discussion. The arguments for taxation have nothing to do with the arguments for slavery. This is a false equivalence.
      - fuzzfactor 6y ago
        If you could do the math, there are millions of Americans whose ancestors accomplished so much over so many generations, both before and after income taxes were first levied, that if one year's worth of collected income taxes would have been invested wisely right there on Wall Street as early as possible there would be no income taxes necessary at all by now.
chordalkeyboard 6y ago
> Every government has taxes. > In the U.S. you have the option of leaving if you find the cost too high. So you acknowledge that there’s no alternative, but you still act like people have the choice of an alternative. > This is the system we have developed for people to pay for the privilege of earning in this society. Some people believe that the freedom to earn a living is a right, not a privilege.
- syops 6y ago
  There is an alternative. Go somewhere else if the cost of living in this society is too high. Earning a tax free living clearly isn’t a right according to the U.S. Constitution. Go elsewhere if the cost is too high or advocate for lowering the cost. It’s a strange position to take that the benefits of the society you live in ought to be free to you when those benefits have costs.
  - chordalkeyboard 6y ago
    > There is an alternative. Go somewhere else if the cost of living in this society is too high. What if the cost of living is high somewhere else as well? > Earning a tax free living clearly isn’t a right according to the U.S. Constitution. The US Constitution recognizes rights, it doesn’t confer them or exhaustively catalog them. > Go elsewhere if the cost is too high or advocate for lowering the cost. This discussion could be an example. > It’s a strange position to take that the benefits of the society you live ought to be free to you when those benefits have costs. Its a strange position to be accused of wanting things for free when one identifies unnecessary waste.
    - Apocryphon 6y ago
      There's a difference between pointing out government waste, wanting to lower taxes, wanting a smaller government, etc. and claiming that taxes are inherently violence, as the original post did.
    - syops 6y ago
      If the cost of living in a different country is too high then I suppose you are destined to feel oppressed for the rest of your life. It’s a strange position to take. Given that very few people feel your way perhaps it is worthwhile to consider that your position is an extreme one and causing you unnecessary distress. The Constitution gives government the power to tax. Therefore in this society earning a tax free income is not a right as far as this society is concerned. I apologize for not making that clearer. The person I responded to did not claim there was unnecessary waste and thus taxes ought to be lower. Their position appears to be that the act of taxation is theft (since it’s done through violent means). Then you chimed in without stating that your position differs. You didn’t give any indication to having a different position to the person I responded to. Thank you for the discussion. I will read and contemplate your response but will not respond further. It appears to me that we have irreconcilable differences of opinion on the matter.

by syops 6y ago

exabrial 6y ago

I think it's absurd to defend the violent nature in which these funds are acquired, regardless of the outcome. The end does not justify the means.

syops 6y ago
It’s absurd, in my opinion, to think that the society that created the opportunities you have to earn money ought to be enjoyed by you at no cost. We can’t all be free loaders and leeches. Acting as if taxes are immoral is nonsensical.
- Apocryphon 6y ago
  It's also incredibly ahistorical.
- exabrial 6y ago
  It came at such a great cost in fact. The vast majority of your taxes are simply wasted. If the US Government were on Charity Navigator they would have a 0-star rating. It'a absurd to defend such a position, especially one rooted in a traditional of violence via arguments that were used to justify the enslavement of entire races.
  - syops 6y ago
    We aren’t talking about whether the tax rate should be lower or better spent. We are talking about whether or not they ought to exist at all. Bringing in, now, the fact that some are wasted is not relevant to the discussion. The arguments for taxation have nothing to do with the arguments for slavery. This is a false equivalence.
    - fuzzfactor 6y ago
      If you could do the math, there are millions of Americans whose ancestors accomplished so much over so many generations, both before and after income taxes were first levied, that if one year's worth of collected income taxes would have been invested wisely right there on Wall Street as early as possible there would be no income taxes necessary at all by now.

chordalkeyboard 6y ago

> Every government has taxes. > In the U.S. you have the option of leaving if you find the cost too high. So you acknowledge that there’s no alternative, but you still act like people have the choice of an alternative. > This is the system we have developed for people to pay for the privilege of earning in this society. Some people believe that the freedom to earn a living is a right, not a privilege.

syops 6y ago
There is an alternative. Go somewhere else if the cost of living in this society is too high. Earning a tax free living clearly isn’t a right according to the U.S. Constitution. Go elsewhere if the cost is too high or advocate for lowering the cost. It’s a strange position to take that the benefits of the society you live in ought to be free to you when those benefits have costs.
- chordalkeyboard 6y ago
  > There is an alternative. Go somewhere else if the cost of living in this society is too high. What if the cost of living is high somewhere else as well? > Earning a tax free living clearly isn’t a right according to the U.S. Constitution. The US Constitution recognizes rights, it doesn’t confer them or exhaustively catalog them. > Go elsewhere if the cost is too high or advocate for lowering the cost. This discussion could be an example. > It’s a strange position to take that the benefits of the society you live ought to be free to you when those benefits have costs. Its a strange position to be accused of wanting things for free when one identifies unnecessary waste.
  - Apocryphon 6y ago
    There's a difference between pointing out government waste, wanting to lower taxes, wanting a smaller government, etc. and claiming that taxes are inherently violence, as the original post did.
  - syops 6y ago
    If the cost of living in a different country is too high then I suppose you are destined to feel oppressed for the rest of your life. It’s a strange position to take. Given that very few people feel your way perhaps it is worthwhile to consider that your position is an extreme one and causing you unnecessary distress. The Constitution gives government the power to tax. Therefore in this society earning a tax free income is not a right as far as this society is concerned. I apologize for not making that clearer. The person I responded to did not claim there was unnecessary waste and thus taxes ought to be lower. Their position appears to be that the act of taxation is theft (since it’s done through violent means). Then you chimed in without stating that your position differs. You didn’t give any indication to having a different position to the person I responded to. Thank you for the discussion. I will read and contemplate your response but will not respond further. It appears to me that we have irreconcilable differences of opinion on the matter.