4 ms·

dupe: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26029608 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26029608

anigbrowl 6y ago
It's not really worth citing a duplicate post unless there's an interesting discussion attached. I know it's annoying to be first with something and not have it recognized, as it happens a lot. But if it's important for you to get eyes on something, consider the time of day when posting, and what else is trending that day, eg if there's a huge story dominating the front page you might want to wait a day to post.
detaro 6y ago
4 points and no comments doesn't count as "dupe" on HN, some reposts are explicitly allowed in such cases.
- f430 6y ago
  it does according to Dang. We can't keep making exceptions to the rule like this. Rules are rules. I've also flagged this submission for being dupe and frankly HN shouldn't be used as a platform to push racially charged politics. Nothing good is going to come out of it.
  - mc10 6y ago
    Do you have a link to the relevant comment by Dang?
  - detaro 6y ago
    > it does according to Dang. fairly sure it doesn't, but I'll email just to check.
    - f430 6y ago
      https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
      - detaro 6y ago
        please quote the part talking about dupes there?
        f430 6y ago
        doesn't matter the submission was quickly buried after I flagged it mission accomplished
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - dang 6y ago
    That's not the rule—if we were that strict about reposts, a huge number of good submissions would end up getting zero attention because the first time they got posted was a swing and a miss. There's too much randomness in what gets liftoff from /newest for that to work. We want good stories to get multiple cracks at the bat. This is in the FAQ: "If a story has not had significant attention in the last year or so, a small number of reposts is ok. Otherwise we bury reposts as duplicates." By that rule, the OP is not a dupe. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html The ontopicness question is orthogonal of course. Politics per se is not off topic here—some political overlap is both ok and inevitable: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=political%20overlap%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so.... The main question is whether the post is intellectually interesting or not. I think this one counts. Historical material is generally welcome on HN, and this particular angle hasn't had a lot of discussion. You're right that we don't want race flamewar, political flamewar, or other flamewar. That means there's an extra burden on commenters to stick to the site guidelines when the topic touches on such flammables. This guideline, for example: "Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - f430 6y ago
      interesting because I've seen the exact same scenario play out before: someone posts a submission that previously had low amount of upvotes but it was still flagged as a dupe and subsequently forgotten. so with the precedent, what exactly is your criteria & process for determining whether a submission is dupe or not? It seems rather subjective. Also with the overwhelming amount of political submissions on HN lately, its leading to a fatigue and polarization of "right" and "wrong" views expressed through downvotes which is essentially censorship from a non-centrist mindset-which ever bias is present at the time of the submission in the absence of moderation prevails.
      - dang 6y ago
        I'd have to see specific examples. It's most likely that there was another version of the story that had gotten significant attention. It's also possible that some software made a bad call.
  - chishaku 6y ago
    > HN shouldn't be used as a platform to push racially charged politics. Surveillance is a staple topic of HN. Can you explain how posting this article amounts to someone using "HN... as a platform to push racially charged politics"?
    - dang 6y ago
      Let's not go into political battle about this here. It's clear that the topic touches on race and politics—that's obvious, and also superficial, and we needn't litigate it.
      - chishaku 6y ago
        I interpreted "platform to push..." differently than the "topic touches on...". But I agree we don't need a political battle here. Thank you dang.
dang 6y ago
anigbrowl is right. I'm sorry—I know it sucks to be the first to post a submission and then see a repost 'win'. It's on our list to fix that by sharing credit and karma across multiple submitters. We'll get there someday. In the meantime, the lottery at least evens out if you submit lots of good stories.

It's not really worth citing a duplicate post unless there's an interesting discussion attached. I know it's annoying to be first with something and not have it recognized, as it happens a lot. But if it's important for you to get eyes on something, consider the time of day when posting, and what else is trending that day, eg if there's a huge story dominating the front page you might want to wait a day to post.

detaro 6y ago

4 points and no comments doesn't count as "dupe" on HN, some reposts are explicitly allowed in such cases.

f430 6y ago
it does according to Dang. We can't keep making exceptions to the rule like this. Rules are rules. I've also flagged this submission for being dupe and frankly HN shouldn't be used as a platform to push racially charged politics. Nothing good is going to come out of it.
- mc10 6y ago
  Do you have a link to the relevant comment by Dang?
- detaro 6y ago
  > it does according to Dang. fairly sure it doesn't, but I'll email just to check.
  - f430 6y ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - detaro 6y ago
      please quote the part talking about dupes there?
      - f430 6y ago
        doesn't matter the submission was quickly buried after I flagged it mission accomplished
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- dang 6y ago
  That's not the rule—if we were that strict about reposts, a huge number of good submissions would end up getting zero attention because the first time they got posted was a swing and a miss. There's too much randomness in what gets liftoff from /newest for that to work. We want good stories to get multiple cracks at the bat. This is in the FAQ: "If a story has not had significant attention in the last year or so, a small number of reposts is ok. Otherwise we bury reposts as duplicates." By that rule, the OP is not a dupe. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html The ontopicness question is orthogonal of course. Politics per se is not off topic here—some political overlap is both ok and inevitable: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=political%20overlap%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so.... The main question is whether the post is intellectually interesting or not. I think this one counts. Historical material is generally welcome on HN, and this particular angle hasn't had a lot of discussion. You're right that we don't want race flamewar, political flamewar, or other flamewar. That means there's an extra burden on commenters to stick to the site guidelines when the topic touches on such flammables. This guideline, for example: "Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - f430 6y ago
    interesting because I've seen the exact same scenario play out before: someone posts a submission that previously had low amount of upvotes but it was still flagged as a dupe and subsequently forgotten. so with the precedent, what exactly is your criteria & process for determining whether a submission is dupe or not? It seems rather subjective. Also with the overwhelming amount of political submissions on HN lately, its leading to a fatigue and polarization of "right" and "wrong" views expressed through downvotes which is essentially censorship from a non-centrist mindset-which ever bias is present at the time of the submission in the absence of moderation prevails.
    - dang 6y ago
      I'd have to see specific examples. It's most likely that there was another version of the story that had gotten significant attention. It's also possible that some software made a bad call.
- chishaku 6y ago
  > HN shouldn't be used as a platform to push racially charged politics. Surveillance is a staple topic of HN. Can you explain how posting this article amounts to someone using "HN... as a platform to push racially charged politics"?
  - dang 6y ago
    Let's not go into political battle about this here. It's clear that the topic touches on race and politics—that's obvious, and also superficial, and we needn't litigate it.
    - chishaku 6y ago
      I interpreted "platform to push..." differently than the "topic touches on...". But I agree we don't need a political battle here. Thank you dang.

dang 6y ago

anigbrowl is right. I'm sorry—I know it sucks to be the first to post a submission and then see a repost 'win'. It's on our list to fix that by sharing credit and karma across multiple submitters. We'll get there someday. In the meantime, the lottery at least evens out if you submit lots of good stories.