6 ms·

Germany to let citizens store ID cards on smartphone

28 points by finphil 6y ago

toomuchtodo 6y ago
TLDR Transitioning to an app and biometrics from smart cards and smart card readers.
riggsdk 6y ago
Denmark also just got a “drivers license”-app that is valid everywhere in the country. You only need to bring your physical card when you travel. Our healthcare social security (national id) card is on the way as an app as well. Oddly enough the drivers license is that much more important as it’s one of the only widely accepted photo-ID (except for passports) that we got.
martindbp 6y ago
A major convenience in Sweden is using Mobile Bank ID for everything, which authenticates you using your smartphone. File your taxes? Start a company? Check your pension? Log in to your bank/transfer money? More and more private companies are integrating with it to a point where we don't really need accounts or passwords for anything involving your real identity. I don't see why it couldn't be used to buy alcohol or prove that you have a driver's license too, it's just a matter of time. It started as a PC thing in 2003, but turned mobile in 2011. Now penetration is 94% of smartphone users, which is pretty much everybody. Scary? Yes. Convenient? Very.
- cinntaile 6y ago
  Sweden is quite absurd in that regard. You can rent a car by simply scanning your driver's license, but buying an energy drink or light beer by scanning your ID? No that'd be irresponsible, an actual person has to do the verification.
- Tijdreiziger 6y ago
  We have a similar system in the Netherlands named DigiD. I prefer this system over the Swedish one as it's run by a government agency (rather than any bank) and it's only accessible to governmental or semi-governmental (e.g. pension, healthcare) agencies.
- rags2riches 6y ago
  I have resisted getting a Mobile Bank ID for years now. A Bank ID just seems too powerful to keep as a soft cert on my cheap cell phone full of apps doing god knows what. Having it on a smartcard I can store safely just feels more appropriate. But Mobile Bank ID is becoming so common it will pretty much be required to have one. Some services integrating with Bank ID only bother to implement the Mobile part for example (and it's not much extra effort to support all kinds). A credit card suddenly changed from doing a SMS code verification to doing it via Bank ID (which I of course discovered in a situation where I did not have my smartcard accessible). Sometimes a small business or event will only accept mobile payment and the Swish payment system is of course built on Mobile Bank ID. I expect I will be getting a Mobile Bank ID soon.
neither_color 6y ago
I look forward to the day I can do this all with my watch and go all day without anything in my pockets.
NoPicklez 6y ago
We have a digital ID here in Australia, which is really just our government issued ID within a MyGov smartphone application. However, I don't believe it currently integrates with online services outside of government services. But it does mean that I haven't carried my wallet on me for almost 2 years with the digital ID and payments/purchases all driven on my mobile phone.
- cstrat 6y ago
  Might be a stretch to say its integration, but you can scan a QR code and sign into a RSL. Edit, I too haven't carried a wallet in years, how good is it.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
junon 6y ago
Good, Germany is way behind when it comes to this stuff.
perryizgr8 6y ago
Interestingly, we have had these apps [0][1] for a few years now where you can store your IDs like driving licence, Adhaar, PAN card, voter's ID etc. Police and officials are instructed to treat these in the same way they would treat the original paper version of the document. It's very convenient, I don't have to carry around anything except my phone. [0] - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.nic.mparivahan&hl=en&gl=US https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.nic.mpariv... [1] - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.digilocker.android https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.digilocker...
thecleaner 6y ago
Is this only for citizens or also for blue card holders ? I suppose both since they pay equal amount of taxes.
- cecja 6y ago
  It's for the German passport does a blue card holder have a German passport? No. I always thought Hackernews was about logic and shit.
janfoeh 6y ago
As long as that citizen has a Samsung Galaxy S20, which is currently the only supported phone. [0] [0] https://www.translatetheweb.com/?ref=TVert&from=&to=en&a=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.heise.de%2Fnews%2FGesetzentwurf-Online-Ausweis-soll-aufs-Handy-wird-aber-teuer-5049183.html https://www.translatetheweb.com/?ref=TVert&from=&to=en&a=htt...
chewz 6y ago
In Poland government issued mObywatel app stores ID cards, driving licence, student ID card, car ownership certificate, digital pharmacy prescriptions and COVID vaccination proofs. Also driving penalty points. More to come.. [] https://www.gov.pl/web/mobywatel https://www.gov.pl/web/mobywatel [] https://apps.apple.com/pl/app/mobywatel/id1339613469?l=pl https://apps.apple.com/pl/app/mobywatel/id1339613469?l=pl [] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=pl.nask.mobywatel&hl=en&gl=US https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=pl.nask.mobywa...
cnxk 6y ago
I don't understand the positivity here. It is utterly foolish to store anything that "proves" your identity on an easily hackable device. Good luck proving abuse. It is already difficult with similarly "secure" banking transactions, the banks tend to win.
- Tagbert 6y ago
  Or a wallet that is easily lost or stolen? Is the phone ID a greater risk?

28 points by finphil 6y ago

TLDR Transitioning to an app and biometrics from smart cards and smart card readers.

Denmark also just got a “drivers license”-app that is valid everywhere in the country. You only need to bring your physical card when you travel. Our healthcare social security (national id) card is on the way as an app as well. Oddly enough the drivers license is that much more important as it’s one of the only widely accepted photo-ID (except for passports) that we got.

martindbp 6y ago

A major convenience in Sweden is using Mobile Bank ID for everything, which authenticates you using your smartphone. File your taxes? Start a company? Check your pension? Log in to your bank/transfer money? More and more private companies are integrating with it to a point where we don't really need accounts or passwords for anything involving your real identity. I don't see why it couldn't be used to buy alcohol or prove that you have a driver's license too, it's just a matter of time. It started as a PC thing in 2003, but turned mobile in 2011. Now penetration is 94% of smartphone users, which is pretty much everybody. Scary? Yes. Convenient? Very.

cinntaile 6y ago
Sweden is quite absurd in that regard. You can rent a car by simply scanning your driver's license, but buying an energy drink or light beer by scanning your ID? No that'd be irresponsible, an actual person has to do the verification.
Tijdreiziger 6y ago
We have a similar system in the Netherlands named DigiD. I prefer this system over the Swedish one as it's run by a government agency (rather than any bank) and it's only accessible to governmental or semi-governmental (e.g. pension, healthcare) agencies.
rags2riches 6y ago
I have resisted getting a Mobile Bank ID for years now. A Bank ID just seems too powerful to keep as a soft cert on my cheap cell phone full of apps doing god knows what. Having it on a smartcard I can store safely just feels more appropriate. But Mobile Bank ID is becoming so common it will pretty much be required to have one. Some services integrating with Bank ID only bother to implement the Mobile part for example (and it's not much extra effort to support all kinds). A credit card suddenly changed from doing a SMS code verification to doing it via Bank ID (which I of course discovered in a situation where I did not have my smartcard accessible). Sometimes a small business or event will only accept mobile payment and the Swish payment system is of course built on Mobile Bank ID. I expect I will be getting a Mobile Bank ID soon.

neither_color 6y ago

I look forward to the day I can do this all with my watch and go all day without anything in my pockets.

NoPicklez 6y ago

We have a digital ID here in Australia, which is really just our government issued ID within a MyGov smartphone application. However, I don't believe it currently integrates with online services outside of government services. But it does mean that I haven't carried my wallet on me for almost 2 years with the digital ID and payments/purchases all driven on my mobile phone.

cstrat 6y ago
Might be a stretch to say its integration, but you can scan a QR code and sign into a RSL. Edit, I too haven't carried a wallet in years, how good is it.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

junon 6y ago

Good, Germany is way behind when it comes to this stuff.

perryizgr8 6y ago

Interestingly, we have had these apps [0][1] for a few years now where you can store your IDs like driving licence, Adhaar, PAN card, voter's ID etc. Police and officials are instructed to treat these in the same way they would treat the original paper version of the document. It's very convenient, I don't have to carry around anything except my phone. [0] - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.nic.mparivahan&hl=en&gl=US https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.nic.mpariv... [1] - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.digilocker.android https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.digilocker...

thecleaner 6y ago

Is this only for citizens or also for blue card holders ? I suppose both since they pay equal amount of taxes.

cecja 6y ago
It's for the German passport does a blue card holder have a German passport? No. I always thought Hackernews was about logic and shit.

janfoeh 6y ago

As long as that citizen has a Samsung Galaxy S20, which is currently the only supported phone. [0] [0] https://www.translatetheweb.com/?ref=TVert&from=&to=en&a=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.heise.de%2Fnews%2FGesetzentwurf-Online-Ausweis-soll-aufs-Handy-wird-aber-teuer-5049183.html https://www.translatetheweb.com/?ref=TVert&from=&to=en&a=htt...

chewz 6y ago

In Poland government issued mObywatel app stores ID cards, driving licence, student ID card, car ownership certificate, digital pharmacy prescriptions and COVID vaccination proofs. Also driving penalty points. More to come.. [] https://www.gov.pl/web/mobywatel https://www.gov.pl/web/mobywatel [] https://apps.apple.com/pl/app/mobywatel/id1339613469?l=pl https://apps.apple.com/pl/app/mobywatel/id1339613469?l=pl [] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=pl.nask.mobywatel&hl=en&gl=US https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=pl.nask.mobywa...

cnxk 6y ago

I don't understand the positivity here. It is utterly foolish to store anything that "proves" your identity on an easily hackable device. Good luck proving abuse. It is already difficult with similarly "secure" banking transactions, the banks tend to win.

Tagbert 6y ago
Or a wallet that is easily lost or stolen? Is the phone ID a greater risk?