5 ms·

If your taxes are easy in Sweden / Australia they would be easy in the US.

notahacker 6y ago
My understanding is that if your personal taxes are moderately complicated (income from self employment and investment/property, some possible deductions) they're a lot harder in the US though. HMRC's website in the UK is far from perfect, but its tax form covering all UK personal taxes has the features people appear to be paying for with TurboTax (Q&A format, most sections being optional, references to industry specific deductions, guidance notes) baked in. If your taxes are "easy" in the UK they come out of your payroll without you filing a return.
kristopolous 6y ago
What makes you say that? You know they are intentionally difficult in the US? For instance, there's been legislation where the IRS would simply tell you how much you owe and you pay it or dispute it. The IRS already know this amount, because this is what eventually happens. Turbotax successfully lobbied for its defeat. It explicitly spends large amounts of money to complicate and convolute the system and structure it like a classroom quiz.
- s1artibartfast 6y ago
  One of the major challenges with the US system is that the central authorities do not have much of the individual tax information all submitted and processed in advance of the individual taxes. The individual then has to to incorporate this information and file it. Sometimes individuals get amended taxTax information from their income sources and then have to re-file. The central authorities cross check on the backend (in theory). It is incredibly arcane, and in some cases individuals holding publicly traded assets are legally required to file income tax in all 50 states.
  - teclordphrack2 6y ago
    This is incorrect. Your employer is paying in and reporting your taxed income to the feds on a quarterly basis. There are some exceptions to this depending on business size i think but the vast majority of the data is in the feds hands.
  - kristopolous 6y ago
    No. This is not correct. https://www.propublica.org/article/filing-taxes-could-be-free-simple-hr-block-intuit-lobbying-against-it https://www.propublica.org/article/filing-taxes-could-be-fre... California piloted a pre-filled tax return system (similar to Sweden and Australias, that the OP was talking about) called ReadyReturn in 2005 with 51,000 people. Intuit then spent $3 million to smash it. They lobbied and then sued the state to stop the program. They are also profoundly incompetent technologists. There's an entire subreddit dedicated to how broken their stuff is (https://www.reddit.com/r/TurboTax/top/?t=all https://www.reddit.com/r/TurboTax/top/?t=all) What did the participants of ReadyReturn, the pre-fille forms, think of the government program that Intuit killed? "99% stated they were satisfied with ReadyReturn, 97% stated this is the type of service government should provide, 96% stated it was more convenient than how they filed in the past, 95% stated it saved them time, and 98% stated they would use it again" Once again private interests sabotage and destroy the public will. The line of "the reason taxes are so difficult..." is from sheer propaganda shills. Tax simplification has happened, it worked, and Intuit killed it every time. The reason is Intuit. They are the buggy whip industry that won. Shameless grifters that intentionally disrupt people's lives for profit. Use another service. Any listed on the IRS website: https://apps.irs.gov/app/freeFile/browse-all-offers https://apps.irs.gov/app/freeFile/browse-all-offers ... Never give Intuit a dime and click on every ad you see from them.
    - s1artibartfast 6y ago
      I hear what you are saying about the problems with the current system being fraught with problems, and there being a total gap in a government provided service. That said, there are a lot of challenges to such a program. Ready return was limited to people who were single, no-dependents, standard-deduction, only-wage-income, one-employer, with a maximum adjusted gross income of $139,917 This is great for a number of people and should exist! That said, if you fall into this category, your 1040 should take 15 minutes to file by paper. Where automated systems break down is handling more complex scenarios. Selection of deductions, pass through business income and losses, charitable donations, corporate investment vehicles, ect. Many of this things require individuals to make choices at the time of filing. This is challenging to automate.
- stjohnswarts 6y ago
  1040ez is quite easy. I still believe that IRS could just accept you signing that you made a certain amount and these are your deductions. They have the same information that I do, I seriously think they like auditing people.
jbarberu 6y ago
As a Swede living in the U.S., I beg to differ.
enneff 6y ago
All the Americans I know who have moved to Australia rave about how much easier their tax is here.
- cycomanic 6y ago
  Yes especially the ones who still had to file in the US as well. That's one of the things I never understood, the US is only country im aware of where you have to file if you're a citizen, even if you're a resident overseas.

My understanding is that if your personal taxes are moderately complicated (income from self employment and investment/property, some possible deductions) they're a lot harder in the US though. HMRC's website in the UK is far from perfect, but its tax form covering all UK personal taxes has the features people appear to be paying for with TurboTax (Q&A format, most sections being optional, references to industry specific deductions, guidance notes) baked in. If your taxes are "easy" in the UK they come out of your payroll without you filing a return.

kristopolous 6y ago

What makes you say that? You know they are intentionally difficult in the US? For instance, there's been legislation where the IRS would simply tell you how much you owe and you pay it or dispute it. The IRS already know this amount, because this is what eventually happens. Turbotax successfully lobbied for its defeat. It explicitly spends large amounts of money to complicate and convolute the system and structure it like a classroom quiz.

s1artibartfast 6y ago
One of the major challenges with the US system is that the central authorities do not have much of the individual tax information all submitted and processed in advance of the individual taxes. The individual then has to to incorporate this information and file it. Sometimes individuals get amended taxTax information from their income sources and then have to re-file. The central authorities cross check on the backend (in theory). It is incredibly arcane, and in some cases individuals holding publicly traded assets are legally required to file income tax in all 50 states.
- teclordphrack2 6y ago
  This is incorrect. Your employer is paying in and reporting your taxed income to the feds on a quarterly basis. There are some exceptions to this depending on business size i think but the vast majority of the data is in the feds hands.
- kristopolous 6y ago
  No. This is not correct. https://www.propublica.org/article/filing-taxes-could-be-free-simple-hr-block-intuit-lobbying-against-it https://www.propublica.org/article/filing-taxes-could-be-fre... California piloted a pre-filled tax return system (similar to Sweden and Australias, that the OP was talking about) called ReadyReturn in 2005 with 51,000 people. Intuit then spent $3 million to smash it. They lobbied and then sued the state to stop the program. They are also profoundly incompetent technologists. There's an entire subreddit dedicated to how broken their stuff is (https://www.reddit.com/r/TurboTax/top/?t=all https://www.reddit.com/r/TurboTax/top/?t=all) What did the participants of ReadyReturn, the pre-fille forms, think of the government program that Intuit killed? "99% stated they were satisfied with ReadyReturn, 97% stated this is the type of service government should provide, 96% stated it was more convenient than how they filed in the past, 95% stated it saved them time, and 98% stated they would use it again" Once again private interests sabotage and destroy the public will. The line of "the reason taxes are so difficult..." is from sheer propaganda shills. Tax simplification has happened, it worked, and Intuit killed it every time. The reason is Intuit. They are the buggy whip industry that won. Shameless grifters that intentionally disrupt people's lives for profit. Use another service. Any listed on the IRS website: https://apps.irs.gov/app/freeFile/browse-all-offers https://apps.irs.gov/app/freeFile/browse-all-offers ... Never give Intuit a dime and click on every ad you see from them.
  - s1artibartfast 6y ago
    I hear what you are saying about the problems with the current system being fraught with problems, and there being a total gap in a government provided service. That said, there are a lot of challenges to such a program. Ready return was limited to people who were single, no-dependents, standard-deduction, only-wage-income, one-employer, with a maximum adjusted gross income of $139,917 This is great for a number of people and should exist! That said, if you fall into this category, your 1040 should take 15 minutes to file by paper. Where automated systems break down is handling more complex scenarios. Selection of deductions, pass through business income and losses, charitable donations, corporate investment vehicles, ect. Many of this things require individuals to make choices at the time of filing. This is challenging to automate.
stjohnswarts 6y ago
1040ez is quite easy. I still believe that IRS could just accept you signing that you made a certain amount and these are your deductions. They have the same information that I do, I seriously think they like auditing people.

jbarberu 6y ago

As a Swede living in the U.S., I beg to differ.

enneff 6y ago

All the Americans I know who have moved to Australia rave about how much easier their tax is here.

cycomanic 6y ago
Yes especially the ones who still had to file in the US as well. That's one of the things I never understood, the US is only country im aware of where you have to file if you're a citizen, even if you're a resident overseas.