4 ms·

> actual rich people make most of their money not as income, but as unrealized capital gains. Technically, they make most of their wealth as as unrealized capi

> actual rich people make most of their money not as income, but as unrealized capital gains. Technically, they make most of their wealth as as unrealized capital gains. It doesn't become money until they realize the gains, at which point it is taxable income.

SigmundA 6y ago
Then typically only taxed long term cap gains rates of 20% or less...
- jandrewrogers 6y ago
  That is just the base Federal rate. After NIIT, State, etc it can be >35%, which is actually quite high for a country where the cost basis is not inflation-adjusted. That is higher than most countries in Europe.
chris11 6y ago
What's the average effective tax rate for high-net-worth+ individuals if unrealized capital gains are included as income? It seems like people get an increasing level of control over their taxes as their networth increases. Choosing when to exercise options means you have some control over AMT. If you invest in indices, it looks like direct indexing has a lot of tax benefits over an index fund. You can get variable and fixed rate loans against your investment accounts. It's not a good idea for tax minimization to be the main goal of your investment strategy, but it seems like people can get access to a large portion of their investments without actually realizing capital gains.
- thelean12 6y ago
  > What's the average effective tax rate for high-net-worth+ individuals if unrealized capital gains are included as income? That's a completely pointless question. If I own 50% of GameStop, my net worth will have gone from $650 million to $12.2 billion to $1.8 billion in like 45 days. Sure, this is an extreme example, but it happens over longer stretches of time to a ton of the richest people. How exactly do you expect to tax that movement of those unrealized gains? > You can get variable and fixed rate loans against your investment accounts. That you eventually have to pay off. The money you pay it off with will be taxed.
seppin 6y ago
> at which point it is taxable income. Taxable at a rate of a fraction of what people that have labor as their primacy source of income. That's the problem.

SigmundA 6y ago

Then typically only taxed long term cap gains rates of 20% or less...

jandrewrogers 6y ago
That is just the base Federal rate. After NIIT, State, etc it can be >35%, which is actually quite high for a country where the cost basis is not inflation-adjusted. That is higher than most countries in Europe.

chris11 6y ago

What's the average effective tax rate for high-net-worth+ individuals if unrealized capital gains are included as income? It seems like people get an increasing level of control over their taxes as their networth increases. Choosing when to exercise options means you have some control over AMT. If you invest in indices, it looks like direct indexing has a lot of tax benefits over an index fund. You can get variable and fixed rate loans against your investment accounts. It's not a good idea for tax minimization to be the main goal of your investment strategy, but it seems like people can get access to a large portion of their investments without actually realizing capital gains.

thelean12 6y ago
> What's the average effective tax rate for high-net-worth+ individuals if unrealized capital gains are included as income? That's a completely pointless question. If I own 50% of GameStop, my net worth will have gone from $650 million to $12.2 billion to $1.8 billion in like 45 days. Sure, this is an extreme example, but it happens over longer stretches of time to a ton of the richest people. How exactly do you expect to tax that movement of those unrealized gains? > You can get variable and fixed rate loans against your investment accounts. That you eventually have to pay off. The money you pay it off with will be taxed.

seppin 6y ago

> at which point it is taxable income. Taxable at a rate of a fraction of what people that have labor as their primacy source of income. That's the problem.