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> More safe havens for wealth are the last thing a world suffering from vast economic inequality needs. Hard disagree. The problem with inequality is that too

> More safe havens for wealth are the last thing a world suffering from vast economic inequality needs. Hard disagree. The problem with inequality is that too many people have too few assets. Increasing the security of property is a powerful way to mitigate this by giving people safe havens in which to store their wealth.

leereeves 6y ago
People don't have too few assets because there aren't any secure assets to invest in. There are plenty already. People have too few assets because they aren't paid enough for their labor to be able to save, and another class of wealth won't increase the value of labor. Bitcoin won't make that worse, either, but what it will do is impede democratic efforts to redistribute wealth to the poor, thus "protecting wealth" ... from the people.
- chordalkeyboard 6y ago
  > People don't have too few assets because there aren't any secure assets to invest in. There are plenty already. People have too few assets because they are constantly forced by society to support parasites. > People have too few assets because they aren't paid enough for their labor to be able to save Yeah, between zero percent interest rates and quantitative easing, the government and the oligarchs keep eating the fat out of their wages and they don’t have any money left over. Of course this is the point of monetary policy so we invented bitcoin to provide those people with a save haven. > and another class of wealth won't increase the value of labor. It makes wealth accessible to labor. > impede democratic efforts to redistribute wealth to the poor, thus "protecting wealth" ... from the people. You misspelled “oligarchs” as “poor” and then again as “people”
  - leereeves 6y ago
    Once upon a time the world used money whose value the oligarchs and governments couldn't easily manipulate: gold (and gold certificates). The outcome? Widespread poverty, depressions, wars, etc. What makes you think that wouldn't happen again with Bitcoin?
    - chordalkeyboard 6y ago
      > Once upon a time the world used money whose value the oligarchs and governments couldn't easily manipulate: gold (and gold certificates). Why do you think gold certificates can’t be manipulated? > The outcome? Widespread poverty, depressions, wars, etc. You’re missing the part where you substantiate your opinion that “poverty, depressions, wars, etc.” are the result of a stable currency. > What makes you think that wouldn't happen again with Bitcoin? I’m not sure “again” is warranted given that the invention of government fiat has done nothing to mitigate “poverty, depressions, wars, etc.” Also I’m not claiming that bitcoin will end war for all time. Just that governments/banks can’t currently print more than 24 million or so.
      - leereeves 6y ago
        > You’re missing the part where you substantiate your opinion that “poverty, depressions, wars, etc.” are the result of a stable currency. It's not a fringe view: Economists, such as Barry Eichengreen, Peter Temin and Ben Bernanke, blame the gold standard of the 1920s for prolonging the economic depression which started in 1929 and lasted for about a decade.[35][36][37][38][39] It has been described as the consensus view among economists.[40][41] In the United States, adherence to the gold standard prevented the Federal Reserve from expanding the money supply to stimulate the economy, fund insolvent banks and fund government deficits that could "prime the pump" for an expansion. Once off the gold standard, it became free to engage in such money creation. The gold standard limited the flexibility of the central banks' monetary policy by limiting their ability to expand the money supply. In the US, the central bank was required by the Federal Reserve Act (1913) to have gold backing 40% of its demand notes.[42] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_standard#Depression_and_World_War_II https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_standard#Depression_and_W... > I’m not sure “again” is warranted given that the invention of government fiat has done nothing to mitigate “poverty, depressions, wars, etc.” I don't agree, from a US perspective, based on comparing the depressions, poverty, and wars we had before and after the end of the gold standard in 1971 (say, in the 50 years before and after).
        chordalkeyboard 6y ago

leereeves 6y ago

People don't have too few assets because there aren't any secure assets to invest in. There are plenty already. People have too few assets because they aren't paid enough for their labor to be able to save, and another class of wealth won't increase the value of labor. Bitcoin won't make that worse, either, but what it will do is impede democratic efforts to redistribute wealth to the poor, thus "protecting wealth" ... from the people.

chordalkeyboard 6y ago
> People don't have too few assets because there aren't any secure assets to invest in. There are plenty already. People have too few assets because they are constantly forced by society to support parasites. > People have too few assets because they aren't paid enough for their labor to be able to save Yeah, between zero percent interest rates and quantitative easing, the government and the oligarchs keep eating the fat out of their wages and they don’t have any money left over. Of course this is the point of monetary policy so we invented bitcoin to provide those people with a save haven. > and another class of wealth won't increase the value of labor. It makes wealth accessible to labor. > impede democratic efforts to redistribute wealth to the poor, thus "protecting wealth" ... from the people. You misspelled “oligarchs” as “poor” and then again as “people”
- leereeves 6y ago
  Once upon a time the world used money whose value the oligarchs and governments couldn't easily manipulate: gold (and gold certificates). The outcome? Widespread poverty, depressions, wars, etc. What makes you think that wouldn't happen again with Bitcoin?
  - chordalkeyboard 6y ago
    > Once upon a time the world used money whose value the oligarchs and governments couldn't easily manipulate: gold (and gold certificates). Why do you think gold certificates can’t be manipulated? > The outcome? Widespread poverty, depressions, wars, etc. You’re missing the part where you substantiate your opinion that “poverty, depressions, wars, etc.” are the result of a stable currency. > What makes you think that wouldn't happen again with Bitcoin? I’m not sure “again” is warranted given that the invention of government fiat has done nothing to mitigate “poverty, depressions, wars, etc.” Also I’m not claiming that bitcoin will end war for all time. Just that governments/banks can’t currently print more than 24 million or so.
    - leereeves 6y ago
      > You’re missing the part where you substantiate your opinion that “poverty, depressions, wars, etc.” are the result of a stable currency. It's not a fringe view: Economists, such as Barry Eichengreen, Peter Temin and Ben Bernanke, blame the gold standard of the 1920s for prolonging the economic depression which started in 1929 and lasted for about a decade.[35][36][37][38][39] It has been described as the consensus view among economists.[40][41] In the United States, adherence to the gold standard prevented the Federal Reserve from expanding the money supply to stimulate the economy, fund insolvent banks and fund government deficits that could "prime the pump" for an expansion. Once off the gold standard, it became free to engage in such money creation. The gold standard limited the flexibility of the central banks' monetary policy by limiting their ability to expand the money supply. In the US, the central bank was required by the Federal Reserve Act (1913) to have gold backing 40% of its demand notes.[42] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_standard#Depression_and_World_War_II https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_standard#Depression_and_W... > I’m not sure “again” is warranted given that the invention of government fiat has done nothing to mitigate “poverty, depressions, wars, etc.” I don't agree, from a US perspective, based on comparing the depressions, poverty, and wars we had before and after the end of the gold standard in 1971 (say, in the 50 years before and after).
      - chordalkeyboard 6y ago