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>And yet what am I going to do but use turbo tax again. The perceived risk and effort of using a non-automated system to fill them out doesn't seem worth the co

>And yet what am I going to do but use turbo tax again. The perceived risk and effort of using a non-automated system to fill them out doesn't seem worth the cost. I'd suggest FreeTaxUSA.com as an alternative. Federal is always free, and state taxes are ~12/state. I don't have anything obscure about my taxes, and their forms indicate they can handle much more complicated situations than I have. I've used them for 3 years now, with no issues. I will say their system is a bit clunky. I feel like I get in loops sometimes where I go through already filled in information and wish I could just jump to the next section. I wish they would give me more questions on each page so I can better understand how a response to one question filters through down the line.

lotsofpulp 6y ago
Why not use the official IRS free file forms?
- judge2020 6y ago
  Based on this site[0], it looks like you have to use a 'partner' to file the forms if you make under $72,000 a year, is that right? 0: https://www.irs.gov/filing/free-file-do-your-federal-taxes-for-free https://www.irs.gov/filing/free-file-do-your-federal-taxes-f...
  - patentatt 6y ago
    The IRS site gives that impression, but I believe that's not the case. There is "IRS Free File" which is income limited as you mention, but there is also "Free File Fillable Forms" which appears to not be income limited. Intentionally misleading if you ask me.
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      Yes, and I presume it’s because some corrupt legislators are twisting the IRS’ arm on behalf of Intuit.
  - LocalH 6y ago
    I don’t feel like that’s required, more like if you make over $72,000 that you’re required to file the forms yourself
  - jandrese 6y ago
    The wording is confusing (I think this is an IRS requirement having read the documentation for many years now) but what it is saying is that if you make under $72,000/year there are a ton of free options available. If you make more than $72,000 this is supposedly the only free e-file option available. The whole thing is a mess because TurboTax and H&R Block and the like want to stay in business. If the process is too easy then the middlemen won't survive.
- DavidPeiffer 6y ago
  I find it more approachable to use the question/answer format compared to reading all of the instructions on detail, determining if that particular section applies to me, and wondering if I found every form to cover every situation from the last year. An example is figuring out whether I would owe taxes on the gain from the sale of a primary residence I owned for less than 2 years. Figuring that out manually took some googling, finding an IRS guide, reading multiple pages of regulations along with exceptions and determining where I stood. Another is determining HSA contribution limits when my wife and I were in individual HDHP plans part of the year, and a family plan the remainder.
  - kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
    If your tax situation doesn't change from year to year you don't need to scour the instructions. Just work through the forms using last year's return as a guide.
    - wernercd 6y ago
      Except things change from year to year so even if YOU don't change, the underlying tax laws move over time.
      - JadeNB 6y ago
        And there have been a lot of tax changes recently. Although my personal situation didn't change significantly, the filing experience changed more during the past administration than in the 10 years I'd been filing taxes before that, even though those previous 10 years included multiple moves and changes of jobs, and the purchase of a house.
    - astura 6y ago
      They changed form 1040 drastically a year or two ago. Plus tax law changes from year to year.
      - jxramos 6y ago
- JadeNB 6y ago
  Does the IRS allow direct e-filing? At least as of last year, it seemed that you still had to go through someone else to file electronically (although the forms are freely available).
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    Yes, I’ve been using IRS free fillable forms for over 10 years, I think, with no middleman between me and the IRS. Similar with my state taxes on my state’s revenue website.
    - JadeNB 6y ago
      Sorry, so, just to be clear: you've been filing your forms electronically with the IRS, not printing out the filled forms and mailing them? How? I swear I've looked, and been unable to find a way to file electronically (although I agree it's easy to find the form), except if you fall into certain income categories. I've even been told that it's intentionally legally impossible, as a way for the IRS to avoid competing with private providers. (State taxes are a different matter; I've paid Illinois and Michigan taxes recently, and they do provide an easy and obvious way to e-file directly with the state.)
      - jsmith45 6y ago
        https://www.freefilefillableforms.com/ https://www.freefilefillableforms.com/ is the site. It is technically not an IRS service, but one provided by the free file alliance as part of the IRS agreement not to build their own software. There are no income exclusions or anything. It is possible you will be unable to use it if you have to use some really obscure forms, but it does have all the forms that paid Turbo Tax can file for you. You also might not be able to use it if you have one of those weird tax situations where the IRS instructs you to write a message across the top of your 1040.
      - lotsofpulp 6y ago
        Yes, I use the link here: https://www.irs.gov/e-file-providers/free-file-fillable-forms https://www.irs.gov/e-file-providers/free-file-fillable-form... It’s all electronic. You get an email confirmation.
- vlunkr 6y ago
  As another freetaxusa user, I would rather pay a very small fee to have the tool walk me through the process than try to figure it out myself.
- dizzant 6y ago
  I tried Free File Fillable Forms last year on principal, but I ran into issues in two areas: 1. reporting scholarship income (goes on the line beside box 1 and nowhere else), and 2. state taxes are not supported, and my state does not have an equivalent service.
  - jxramos 6y ago
    It's really frustrating that states have not adopted an equivalent service. I actually filed paper forms for mine because their free service is a simplified approximation of the full form and leaves out certain workflows that limit its scope of complexity.
- carabiner 6y ago
  I did in college. If your tax situation is nontrival it can take a very long time and has lots of room for error. I made a mistake and owed a $200 penalty for it back then. Software walks you through it and automates all of the arithmetic, number copying, and prevents fat finger errors.
- astura 6y ago
  When my tax situation was very simple I was happy to do my taxes on paper, often using form 1040-EZ, which only took about 10 minutes. Now that they are complicated (lots of different 1099s and business income) I very much prefer to use software to guide me questions and answers style.
abaga129 6y ago
I'm using freetaxusa.com for the first time this year. I got fed up with TurboTax after being hit with a similar anti-pattern as the ones described above. Got almost to the end and was told I had to pay $80 to file. This was after spending hours on my taxes because there are some things that can't simply be updated.. no you have to completely start the process over from the beginning. This felt intentional so that I would just accept the cost to be done with it. After learning about how TurboTax lobbies to make filing more difficult, I swore I would not use them any longer. I also take everything opportunity to let people know about TurboTax's lobbying. So far freetaxusa.com seems better than TurboTax IMO. It's cleaner and to the point. No unnecessary animations or any of that nonsense.
- DavidPeiffer 6y ago
  Every year I internally gripe about the UI improvements I'd prefer, but fully recognize it is better than TurboTax, and is approachable to people with a wide range of computer literacy.
cycomanic 6y ago
Here in Sweden I go to the tax office website, log in, have a brief look at that all my salary has been correctly entered (I have yet to encounter that it hasn't) add if I possibly want to deduct some extra things (also very uncomplicated), go to file and click send (the whole thing can even be done on mobile) . The process typically takes 20min max, Australia was quite similar. I'm always amazed by tax systems which seem to be so complicated that you almost always need an accountant (I know my parents in Germany always had one, even though their job did not imply more complex taxes than mine)
- ivalm 6y ago
  If all your taxes are just wages then you just fill out a two page form (1040). Literally just copy a couple of numbers from your w2 and you’re good. The problem is if you have non-salary sources of income (eg stock, non-employee compensation, etc) then things can rapidly become very complicated.
  - criddell 6y ago
    You're right, but I think cycomanic has a point. Why do you even have to fill out the 1040? Why isn't there a default option where you can review tax forms that have already been filled out with the the information the IRS has already received?
    - jjeaff 6y ago
      That has been proposed. But has been shot down by powerful lobbying groups. One being the tax prep software companies, but another being a conservative group that objects to making paying tax easier because then it will become too easy for the government to just keep raising taxes. The idea is that if you have to file your taxes every year, you have to acknowledge how much you are paying.
- spullara 6y ago
  If your taxes are easy in Sweden / Australia they would be easy in the US.
dizzant 6y ago
Let me add my recommendation for FreeTaxUSA.com. I am a newly married grad student on fellowship, which implies juggling estimated taxes, confusing withholding rules, scholarship income, a name change, and first-time joint filing. Needless to say, I am not a "simple" case. After TurboTax failed to prepare my forms correctly (!) and wanted to charge me for the displeasure, I went looking for an alternative. FreeTaxUSA.com is where I landed. The interface is fairly minimal. The workflow mirrors the questions/boxes on the IRS forms/instructions, a very helpful feature in my situation since I could easily cross-reference the relevant IRS publications when necessary. They provide excerpts from the documents as you go, which is all I needed in many instances. Unlike TurboTax, the prepared forms were actually correct (to the best of my knowledge, I am not a tax lawyer). Simple, cheap, reliable. Would and do recommend. EDIT: Story is related to last year, I plan to use them again this year.
- DavidPeiffer 6y ago
  I also like their bookmark feature. I commonly realize I need a bit of information and can add a note about my questions I need to research more, or what form I'm waiting on. Once my bookmarks are clear, I know I'm good to submit.
gshubert17 6y ago
Another recommendation for FreeTaxUsa. Used it last year for filing and for an amended return. I am happy to pay the small cost (about $7) for unlimited support (didn't need any). Using it again this year.
carabiner 6y ago
How well does FreeTaxUSA work with investments and other complex tax situations? Can it parse PDFs or import data from brokerages in the same way?
- quickthrowman 6y ago
  No, but it’s not hard to fill in the few boxes of information from the 1099-B. I have 1099-B, Section 1256 contracts, and regulated futures statements and they’re all easy to input.
astura 6y ago
>I will say their system is a bit clunky. Interesting, I use TaxHawk (parent company to FreeTaxUSA, same software) and I find their UI excellent.
aorth 6y ago
> I'd suggest FreeTaxUSA.com as an alternative. LOL I just tried to sign up and they rejected me because my personal email is on a .ch domain: The Email Address can't be a foreign email address ending with .ch. Wowwwwww.
- simonh 6y ago
  And yet US citizens resident abroad still have to file US taxes, even if they are dual citizens and have never lived in the US.
  - mynameisvlad 6y ago
    But they have to file a 1040NR, which most of the tax software won't touch with a ten foot pole.
- dastx 6y ago
  Certainly is a weird requirement. Could this possibly a governmental requirement? I certainly know governments have some silly requirements.
  - aorth 6y ago
    I contacted their support and they said it was for security purposes. Hah...
AaronM 6y ago
+1 for them. I live in one of the few states with no state tax, so its totally free to file. They do ask if you want to pay, its only if you want some audit protection, and live support.
abstractbarista 6y ago
They are great! Use them every year. TurboTax is a scam in comparison. Use code FREETAXUSA10 to get 10% off that already-cheap state filing (federal is free).

lotsofpulp 6y ago

Why not use the official IRS free file forms?

judge2020 6y ago
Based on this site[0], it looks like you have to use a 'partner' to file the forms if you make under $72,000 a year, is that right? 0: https://www.irs.gov/filing/free-file-do-your-federal-taxes-for-free https://www.irs.gov/filing/free-file-do-your-federal-taxes-f...
- patentatt 6y ago
  The IRS site gives that impression, but I believe that's not the case. There is "IRS Free File" which is income limited as you mention, but there is also "Free File Fillable Forms" which appears to not be income limited. Intentionally misleading if you ask me.
  - lotsofpulp 6y ago
    Yes, and I presume it’s because some corrupt legislators are twisting the IRS’ arm on behalf of Intuit.
- LocalH 6y ago
  I don’t feel like that’s required, more like if you make over $72,000 that you’re required to file the forms yourself
- jandrese 6y ago
  The wording is confusing (I think this is an IRS requirement having read the documentation for many years now) but what it is saying is that if you make under $72,000/year there are a ton of free options available. If you make more than $72,000 this is supposedly the only free e-file option available. The whole thing is a mess because TurboTax and H&R Block and the like want to stay in business. If the process is too easy then the middlemen won't survive.
DavidPeiffer 6y ago
I find it more approachable to use the question/answer format compared to reading all of the instructions on detail, determining if that particular section applies to me, and wondering if I found every form to cover every situation from the last year. An example is figuring out whether I would owe taxes on the gain from the sale of a primary residence I owned for less than 2 years. Figuring that out manually took some googling, finding an IRS guide, reading multiple pages of regulations along with exceptions and determining where I stood. Another is determining HSA contribution limits when my wife and I were in individual HDHP plans part of the year, and a family plan the remainder.
- kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
  If your tax situation doesn't change from year to year you don't need to scour the instructions. Just work through the forms using last year's return as a guide.
  - wernercd 6y ago
    Except things change from year to year so even if YOU don't change, the underlying tax laws move over time.
    - JadeNB 6y ago
      And there have been a lot of tax changes recently. Although my personal situation didn't change significantly, the filing experience changed more during the past administration than in the 10 years I'd been filing taxes before that, even though those previous 10 years included multiple moves and changes of jobs, and the purchase of a house.
  - astura 6y ago
    They changed form 1040 drastically a year or two ago. Plus tax law changes from year to year.
    - jxramos 6y ago
JadeNB 6y ago
Does the IRS allow direct e-filing? At least as of last year, it seemed that you still had to go through someone else to file electronically (although the forms are freely available).
- lotsofpulp 6y ago
  Yes, I’ve been using IRS free fillable forms for over 10 years, I think, with no middleman between me and the IRS. Similar with my state taxes on my state’s revenue website.
  - JadeNB 6y ago
    Sorry, so, just to be clear: you've been filing your forms electronically with the IRS, not printing out the filled forms and mailing them? How? I swear I've looked, and been unable to find a way to file electronically (although I agree it's easy to find the form), except if you fall into certain income categories. I've even been told that it's intentionally legally impossible, as a way for the IRS to avoid competing with private providers. (State taxes are a different matter; I've paid Illinois and Michigan taxes recently, and they do provide an easy and obvious way to e-file directly with the state.)
    - jsmith45 6y ago
      https://www.freefilefillableforms.com/ https://www.freefilefillableforms.com/ is the site. It is technically not an IRS service, but one provided by the free file alliance as part of the IRS agreement not to build their own software. There are no income exclusions or anything. It is possible you will be unable to use it if you have to use some really obscure forms, but it does have all the forms that paid Turbo Tax can file for you. You also might not be able to use it if you have one of those weird tax situations where the IRS instructs you to write a message across the top of your 1040.
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      Yes, I use the link here: https://www.irs.gov/e-file-providers/free-file-fillable-forms https://www.irs.gov/e-file-providers/free-file-fillable-form... It’s all electronic. You get an email confirmation.
vlunkr 6y ago
As another freetaxusa user, I would rather pay a very small fee to have the tool walk me through the process than try to figure it out myself.
dizzant 6y ago
I tried Free File Fillable Forms last year on principal, but I ran into issues in two areas: 1. reporting scholarship income (goes on the line beside box 1 and nowhere else), and 2. state taxes are not supported, and my state does not have an equivalent service.
- jxramos 6y ago
  It's really frustrating that states have not adopted an equivalent service. I actually filed paper forms for mine because their free service is a simplified approximation of the full form and leaves out certain workflows that limit its scope of complexity.
carabiner 6y ago
I did in college. If your tax situation is nontrival it can take a very long time and has lots of room for error. I made a mistake and owed a $200 penalty for it back then. Software walks you through it and automates all of the arithmetic, number copying, and prevents fat finger errors.
astura 6y ago
When my tax situation was very simple I was happy to do my taxes on paper, often using form 1040-EZ, which only took about 10 minutes. Now that they are complicated (lots of different 1099s and business income) I very much prefer to use software to guide me questions and answers style.

abaga129 6y ago

I'm using freetaxusa.com for the first time this year. I got fed up with TurboTax after being hit with a similar anti-pattern as the ones described above. Got almost to the end and was told I had to pay $80 to file. This was after spending hours on my taxes because there are some things that can't simply be updated.. no you have to completely start the process over from the beginning. This felt intentional so that I would just accept the cost to be done with it. After learning about how TurboTax lobbies to make filing more difficult, I swore I would not use them any longer. I also take everything opportunity to let people know about TurboTax's lobbying. So far freetaxusa.com seems better than TurboTax IMO. It's cleaner and to the point. No unnecessary animations or any of that nonsense.

DavidPeiffer 6y ago
Every year I internally gripe about the UI improvements I'd prefer, but fully recognize it is better than TurboTax, and is approachable to people with a wide range of computer literacy.

cycomanic 6y ago

Here in Sweden I go to the tax office website, log in, have a brief look at that all my salary has been correctly entered (I have yet to encounter that it hasn't) add if I possibly want to deduct some extra things (also very uncomplicated), go to file and click send (the whole thing can even be done on mobile) . The process typically takes 20min max, Australia was quite similar. I'm always amazed by tax systems which seem to be so complicated that you almost always need an accountant (I know my parents in Germany always had one, even though their job did not imply more complex taxes than mine)

ivalm 6y ago
If all your taxes are just wages then you just fill out a two page form (1040). Literally just copy a couple of numbers from your w2 and you’re good. The problem is if you have non-salary sources of income (eg stock, non-employee compensation, etc) then things can rapidly become very complicated.
- criddell 6y ago
  You're right, but I think cycomanic has a point. Why do you even have to fill out the 1040? Why isn't there a default option where you can review tax forms that have already been filled out with the the information the IRS has already received?
  - jjeaff 6y ago
    That has been proposed. But has been shot down by powerful lobbying groups. One being the tax prep software companies, but another being a conservative group that objects to making paying tax easier because then it will become too easy for the government to just keep raising taxes. The idea is that if you have to file your taxes every year, you have to acknowledge how much you are paying.
spullara 6y ago
If your taxes are easy in Sweden / Australia they would be easy in the US.

dizzant 6y ago

Let me add my recommendation for FreeTaxUSA.com. I am a newly married grad student on fellowship, which implies juggling estimated taxes, confusing withholding rules, scholarship income, a name change, and first-time joint filing. Needless to say, I am not a "simple" case. After TurboTax failed to prepare my forms correctly (!) and wanted to charge me for the displeasure, I went looking for an alternative. FreeTaxUSA.com is where I landed. The interface is fairly minimal. The workflow mirrors the questions/boxes on the IRS forms/instructions, a very helpful feature in my situation since I could easily cross-reference the relevant IRS publications when necessary. They provide excerpts from the documents as you go, which is all I needed in many instances. Unlike TurboTax, the prepared forms were actually correct (to the best of my knowledge, I am not a tax lawyer). Simple, cheap, reliable. Would and do recommend. EDIT: Story is related to last year, I plan to use them again this year.

DavidPeiffer 6y ago
I also like their bookmark feature. I commonly realize I need a bit of information and can add a note about my questions I need to research more, or what form I'm waiting on. Once my bookmarks are clear, I know I'm good to submit.

gshubert17 6y ago

Another recommendation for FreeTaxUsa. Used it last year for filing and for an amended return. I am happy to pay the small cost (about $7) for unlimited support (didn't need any). Using it again this year.

carabiner 6y ago

How well does FreeTaxUSA work with investments and other complex tax situations? Can it parse PDFs or import data from brokerages in the same way?

quickthrowman 6y ago
No, but it’s not hard to fill in the few boxes of information from the 1099-B. I have 1099-B, Section 1256 contracts, and regulated futures statements and they’re all easy to input.

astura 6y ago

>I will say their system is a bit clunky. Interesting, I use TaxHawk (parent company to FreeTaxUSA, same software) and I find their UI excellent.

aorth 6y ago

> I'd suggest FreeTaxUSA.com as an alternative. LOL I just tried to sign up and they rejected me because my personal email is on a .ch domain: The Email Address can't be a foreign email address ending with .ch. Wowwwwww.

simonh 6y ago
And yet US citizens resident abroad still have to file US taxes, even if they are dual citizens and have never lived in the US.
- mynameisvlad 6y ago
  But they have to file a 1040NR, which most of the tax software won't touch with a ten foot pole.
dastx 6y ago
Certainly is a weird requirement. Could this possibly a governmental requirement? I certainly know governments have some silly requirements.
- aorth 6y ago
  I contacted their support and they said it was for security purposes. Hah...

AaronM 6y ago

+1 for them. I live in one of the few states with no state tax, so its totally free to file. They do ask if you want to pay, its only if you want some audit protection, and live support.

abstractbarista 6y ago

They are great! Use them every year. TurboTax is a scam in comparison. Use code FREETAXUSA10 to get 10% off that already-cheap state filing (federal is free).