9 ms·

Everyone on this thread seems to be missing the point that they’ll be working with stablecoins on Ethereum and other smart contracts chains, and not Bitcoin.

Sargos 6y ago
Hacker News is still trying to grasp Bitcoin so I feel like Ethereum is going to take another few years to even begin productive discussions.
- seibelj 6y ago
  HN should have been on the cutting edge of crypto, given its “hacker” supposed ethos, but a large group of no-coiners couldn’t understand it and have posted the same tired arguments ad nauseum for years. There are a lot of people on HN who love and support crypto but the arguments are exhausting and you get nothing but downvotes. All of my friends and family I convinced to buy and hold have been texting me how I changed their lives. It’s just so sad to see what this website did to engineers who normally have open minds but were convinced to hate crypto.
  - whitepaint 6y ago
    I've read many good arguments against cryptos here. If 80% drop happens within the next month, nobody really would be surprised. Cryptos can still easily fail. I hold Ether (just it) because what they are doing is really extraordinary but gazillion things might go wrong with it, Bitcoin, and others.
    - lifty 6y ago
      Do you think the code will fail, the consensus model, or there are no uses cases? If you have concerns about this I would love to hear them. But if you are only afraid that the price can fall 90%, then who cares? Let it fall, there is too much hype anyway, to the point it has created great division between coiners and no-coiners. For example, the 2001 stock market crash, it cleared out projects based on fluff and the rest continued to build. I would reckon we would see a similar dynamic now, but probably with faster market cycles.
      - whitepaint 6y ago
        2 most likely possibilities imo: some huge vulnerability that has not yet been found, and something much much better coming out.
        lifty 6y ago
        Sure, vulnerabilities and bugs can happen. They get fixed and people move on. Something much better coming out is not an existential risk for the cryptocurrency/blockchain space, quite the opposite, it's very positive.
        whitepaint 6y ago
        Is it positive for Bitcoin if Ethereum proves that POS is way way superior? And if people actually start using Ether as a currency in shops, start using it with many dapps etc.? What if something much better than that comes up? Are you absolutely sure Bitcoin survives in the long-term?
        hanniabu 6y ago
        I do believe one day Ethereum will overtake Bitcoin, but I think we may be a few years away from that (possibly next cycle). Reason being is that everyone's first exposure to crypto is Bitcoin. It's hard enough for them to understand that. After that they have a better foundation to start understanding Ethereum. Once you understand Ethereum and see the network effects it has and that all innovation is happening there it's pretty easy to see how it has more growth potential. The ability to stake is what I think will really steal from Bitcoin's "store of value" narrative though as it offers people interest and will also lock up circulation which will help with price stability.
      - PragmaticPulp 6y ago
        Ask yourself: What drives the price increase? Are people buying because they expect to use Bitcoin? Or because they expect the price will go up? If it's the latter, it's a self-reinforcing cycle: The price goes up because people buy. People buy because the price goes up. So what happens when the popular narrative switches? What happens when the price goes down for years at a time and people watch their money dwindle? Will people wait around for the price to skyrocket again? Or will they see their friends getting rich in altcoins or meme stocks or NFT trading cards and sell their BTC to get in on the next hot trend?
  - grapehut 6y ago
    I think a lot of it is just people not wanting to admit they were wrong. It's far easier to double down. I remember almost being convinced by patio11 that bitcoin was stupid and dumping it at like $30, but thankfully didn't. Now I get a bit of a kick out seeing him come out of the woodworks when ever bitcoin or tether hits a hiccup gloating how they were right!
  - PragmaticPulp 6y ago
    Bitcoin was all over the news a decade ago. The reason it's not popular is that the early narrative wasn't "too the moon!" The narrative was that Bitcoin was the currency of the future and that we'd all be using Bitcoin for transactions. Anyone who actually used Bitcoin at the time could see how there was no chance of it taking off as a payment mechanism. That's still true today, especially with $8+ transaction fees. The difference is that everyone dropped the pretense of actually using bitcoin and instead went all-in on the speculation narrative. People buy it because the price goes up, and the price goes up because people buy it. Works great until a down cycle, when everyone rushes for the exits and tells themselves they'll buy back in at a lower price. > All of my friends and family I convinced to buy and hold have been texting me how I changed their lives. Changed their lives how? By revolutionizing the way they pay for things with cryptocurrency? Or by getting in on an investment that went up? Be warned that the exact opposite happens when Bitcoin goes back down. Look back at Reddit posts during previous crashes for a reminder: Suicide hotline warnings, stories about people losing half of their retirement, and so on. If the only redeeming quality of Bitcoin is that the price goes up as more people get in on it, it's hardly different than an MLM or pyramid scheme that relies on a constant influx of new money to keep the show going.
    - heidar 6y ago
      Given what you're commenting all over this post, it's pretty clear you don't follow developments in the cryptocurrency space much. Bitcoin is stale, there's no development or innovation happening. It has become a store of value only. The only possible solution that could change that is the Lightning network or other Layer 2 protocols. There are plenty of other coins however that are doing super exciting innovation. Bitcoin Cash and Nano are some examples. They're actually solving problems and moving the technology forward. And they're being adopted as payment methods as a result. It makes me incredibly sad to see how many people (especially on HN) have no idea about that, and have adopted an anti-crypto stance like it's some ideological war, constantly citing the same old tired arguments.
      - ausbah 6y ago
        all that innovation is cool and all, but it seems a bit egotistical to be upset that people haven't heard of your awesome cool thing when a vast vast majority of people haven't heard about or use your thing
  - globular-toast 6y ago
    > All of my friends and family I convinced to buy and hold have been texting me how I changed their lives. Because they're enjoying life without private banks? Or because they've realised gains from the bubble? If you "understand Bitcoin" as you claim, you must realise the latter cannot go on forever.
- supersour 6y ago
  I think the more productive sentiment would be to try and have a more in depth discussion about Ethereum instead of attacking HN ad-hominem. So, as someone who doesn't know much about crypto aside from "it's bitcoin!", please tell me, what advantage do stablecoins/Ethereum provide that fixes the problems presented with bitcoin? I actually want to learn more. I would be interested to know about the volatility specifically and also if these currencies are less susceptible to a 51% attack or a fork.
  - chizhik-pyzhik 6y ago
    Stablecoins are a way to use the Ethereum network (or another blockchain) to send value that is pegged to the US dollar. There are a lot of stablecoins now (USDC, DAI, USDT) and they have various mechanisms for staying pegged to the dollar, some more effective than others. Using stablecoins allows you the advantages of the Ethereum network (interoperability with ethereum loan platforms and other smart contracts) without having to be concerned with the price of ETH. Stablecoins have the same level of security as their underlying blockchain. To double-spend ethereum-based stablecoins you need to 51% attack Ethereum itself.
    - ORioN63 6y ago
      I want to add that Ethereum gas (fees), are at the moment quite expensive. That being said, there's work being done to lower that and competing blockchains are coming up, that support the EVM (Ethereum Virtual Machine) or at the very least supporting Solidity (which in turn compiles to EVM assembly). There's a amazing fintech ecosystem being created in Ethereum, with decentralized exchanges, trustable oracles, DAOs, etc. It's definitely worth the look.
janaagaard 6y ago
> hey’ll be working with stablecoins on Ethereum and other smart contracts chains, and not Bitcoin. Interesting, but where do you get that from?
glsdfgkjsklfj 6y ago
Not even that. they will likely implement their own private-ledger-per-country system. The press release mention only one market that is currently trading via informal SMS and WAP bank apps with little access to actual money, so why not remove the money entirely?
- glsdfgkjsklfj 6y ago
  here's the "source" (source mentioned on the MC pressrelesed which is the source of the article) of which "cryptocurrencies" they are considering https://www.statista.com/chart/18345/crypto-currency-adoption/ https://www.statista.com/chart/18345/crypto-currency-adoptio... notice how they clump "cryptocurrency" with "digital currencies" as the same thing.

Sargos 6y ago

Hacker News is still trying to grasp Bitcoin so I feel like Ethereum is going to take another few years to even begin productive discussions.

seibelj 6y ago
HN should have been on the cutting edge of crypto, given its “hacker” supposed ethos, but a large group of no-coiners couldn’t understand it and have posted the same tired arguments ad nauseum for years. There are a lot of people on HN who love and support crypto but the arguments are exhausting and you get nothing but downvotes. All of my friends and family I convinced to buy and hold have been texting me how I changed their lives. It’s just so sad to see what this website did to engineers who normally have open minds but were convinced to hate crypto.
- whitepaint 6y ago
  I've read many good arguments against cryptos here. If 80% drop happens within the next month, nobody really would be surprised. Cryptos can still easily fail. I hold Ether (just it) because what they are doing is really extraordinary but gazillion things might go wrong with it, Bitcoin, and others.
  - lifty 6y ago
    Do you think the code will fail, the consensus model, or there are no uses cases? If you have concerns about this I would love to hear them. But if you are only afraid that the price can fall 90%, then who cares? Let it fall, there is too much hype anyway, to the point it has created great division between coiners and no-coiners. For example, the 2001 stock market crash, it cleared out projects based on fluff and the rest continued to build. I would reckon we would see a similar dynamic now, but probably with faster market cycles.
    - whitepaint 6y ago
      2 most likely possibilities imo: some huge vulnerability that has not yet been found, and something much much better coming out.
      - lifty 6y ago
        Sure, vulnerabilities and bugs can happen. They get fixed and people move on. Something much better coming out is not an existential risk for the cryptocurrency/blockchain space, quite the opposite, it's very positive.
        whitepaint 6y ago
        Is it positive for Bitcoin if Ethereum proves that POS is way way superior? And if people actually start using Ether as a currency in shops, start using it with many dapps etc.? What if something much better than that comes up? Are you absolutely sure Bitcoin survives in the long-term?
        hanniabu 6y ago
        I do believe one day Ethereum will overtake Bitcoin, but I think we may be a few years away from that (possibly next cycle). Reason being is that everyone's first exposure to crypto is Bitcoin. It's hard enough for them to understand that. After that they have a better foundation to start understanding Ethereum. Once you understand Ethereum and see the network effects it has and that all innovation is happening there it's pretty easy to see how it has more growth potential. The ability to stake is what I think will really steal from Bitcoin's "store of value" narrative though as it offers people interest and will also lock up circulation which will help with price stability.
    - PragmaticPulp 6y ago
      Ask yourself: What drives the price increase? Are people buying because they expect to use Bitcoin? Or because they expect the price will go up? If it's the latter, it's a self-reinforcing cycle: The price goes up because people buy. People buy because the price goes up. So what happens when the popular narrative switches? What happens when the price goes down for years at a time and people watch their money dwindle? Will people wait around for the price to skyrocket again? Or will they see their friends getting rich in altcoins or meme stocks or NFT trading cards and sell their BTC to get in on the next hot trend?
- grapehut 6y ago
  I think a lot of it is just people not wanting to admit they were wrong. It's far easier to double down. I remember almost being convinced by patio11 that bitcoin was stupid and dumping it at like $30, but thankfully didn't. Now I get a bit of a kick out seeing him come out of the woodworks when ever bitcoin or tether hits a hiccup gloating how they were right!
- PragmaticPulp 6y ago
  Bitcoin was all over the news a decade ago. The reason it's not popular is that the early narrative wasn't "too the moon!" The narrative was that Bitcoin was the currency of the future and that we'd all be using Bitcoin for transactions. Anyone who actually used Bitcoin at the time could see how there was no chance of it taking off as a payment mechanism. That's still true today, especially with $8+ transaction fees. The difference is that everyone dropped the pretense of actually using bitcoin and instead went all-in on the speculation narrative. People buy it because the price goes up, and the price goes up because people buy it. Works great until a down cycle, when everyone rushes for the exits and tells themselves they'll buy back in at a lower price. > All of my friends and family I convinced to buy and hold have been texting me how I changed their lives. Changed their lives how? By revolutionizing the way they pay for things with cryptocurrency? Or by getting in on an investment that went up? Be warned that the exact opposite happens when Bitcoin goes back down. Look back at Reddit posts during previous crashes for a reminder: Suicide hotline warnings, stories about people losing half of their retirement, and so on. If the only redeeming quality of Bitcoin is that the price goes up as more people get in on it, it's hardly different than an MLM or pyramid scheme that relies on a constant influx of new money to keep the show going.
  - heidar 6y ago
    Given what you're commenting all over this post, it's pretty clear you don't follow developments in the cryptocurrency space much. Bitcoin is stale, there's no development or innovation happening. It has become a store of value only. The only possible solution that could change that is the Lightning network or other Layer 2 protocols. There are plenty of other coins however that are doing super exciting innovation. Bitcoin Cash and Nano are some examples. They're actually solving problems and moving the technology forward. And they're being adopted as payment methods as a result. It makes me incredibly sad to see how many people (especially on HN) have no idea about that, and have adopted an anti-crypto stance like it's some ideological war, constantly citing the same old tired arguments.
    - ausbah 6y ago
      all that innovation is cool and all, but it seems a bit egotistical to be upset that people haven't heard of your awesome cool thing when a vast vast majority of people haven't heard about or use your thing
- globular-toast 6y ago
  > All of my friends and family I convinced to buy and hold have been texting me how I changed their lives. Because they're enjoying life without private banks? Or because they've realised gains from the bubble? If you "understand Bitcoin" as you claim, you must realise the latter cannot go on forever.
supersour 6y ago
I think the more productive sentiment would be to try and have a more in depth discussion about Ethereum instead of attacking HN ad-hominem. So, as someone who doesn't know much about crypto aside from "it's bitcoin!", please tell me, what advantage do stablecoins/Ethereum provide that fixes the problems presented with bitcoin? I actually want to learn more. I would be interested to know about the volatility specifically and also if these currencies are less susceptible to a 51% attack or a fork.
- chizhik-pyzhik 6y ago
  Stablecoins are a way to use the Ethereum network (or another blockchain) to send value that is pegged to the US dollar. There are a lot of stablecoins now (USDC, DAI, USDT) and they have various mechanisms for staying pegged to the dollar, some more effective than others. Using stablecoins allows you the advantages of the Ethereum network (interoperability with ethereum loan platforms and other smart contracts) without having to be concerned with the price of ETH. Stablecoins have the same level of security as their underlying blockchain. To double-spend ethereum-based stablecoins you need to 51% attack Ethereum itself.
  - ORioN63 6y ago
    I want to add that Ethereum gas (fees), are at the moment quite expensive. That being said, there's work being done to lower that and competing blockchains are coming up, that support the EVM (Ethereum Virtual Machine) or at the very least supporting Solidity (which in turn compiles to EVM assembly). There's a amazing fintech ecosystem being created in Ethereum, with decentralized exchanges, trustable oracles, DAOs, etc. It's definitely worth the look.

janaagaard 6y ago

> hey’ll be working with stablecoins on Ethereum and other smart contracts chains, and not Bitcoin. Interesting, but where do you get that from?

glsdfgkjsklfj 6y ago

Not even that. they will likely implement their own private-ledger-per-country system. The press release mention only one market that is currently trading via informal SMS and WAP bank apps with little access to actual money, so why not remove the money entirely?

glsdfgkjsklfj 6y ago
here's the "source" (source mentioned on the MC pressrelesed which is the source of the article) of which "cryptocurrencies" they are considering https://www.statista.com/chart/18345/crypto-currency-adoption/ https://www.statista.com/chart/18345/crypto-currency-adoptio... notice how they clump "cryptocurrency" with "digital currencies" as the same thing.