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Imagine if the USA was like most other developed nations where the government just sends you a receipt for you to verify and your taxes are otherwise taken care

Imagine if the USA was like most other developed nations where the government just sends you a receipt for you to verify and your taxes are otherwise taken care of for you. Instead we have Intuit lobbying to make it as difficult as possible, aided by Republicans who want the process to be as unpleasant as possible so people begin to loathe the very concept of taxation (This isn't hyperbole, Grover Norquist and his numerous disciples freely admit this).

wombat-man 6y ago
I really don't mind paying taxes It drives me up the wall that we as a country have to all do this stupid homework assignment every year.
- king_magic 6y ago
  Exactly. I am more than happy to pay my fair share, which is considerable. But I am extremely not happy to have to fight through arcane, barely understandable accounting homework each year - and as a small business owner to boot, shell out a few hundred to a tax service to make sure I don't screw it up doing it myself. It's absurd.
- alistairSH 6y ago
  Agreed. Living in a functioning society, in the "western" world, is pretty nice and I'm happy to pay for it. But, having to spend a day or more every March, or pay a CPA a few hundred dollars, is infuriating. My taxes aren't that complicated - two upper middle class salaries, a normal (for dense suburb) mortgage, and no kid at home any more (he flew the coop 3 years ago). Outside of the years we were impacted by AMT (a whole other rant), the IRS knows exactly what we earn, what we've paid to date, and determining our mortgage obligation should be trivial (submission from bank to IRS or similar). They should just mail me an index card that says "your good!" or "you still owe $1200" or similar and that's that.
civilized 6y ago
It speaks poorly of some on HN that you would be downvoted for making this argument, which is based on well-known, documented facts. Are there Intuit shills lurking this site?
- NovemberWhiskey 6y ago
  I've lived and paid taxes in three of the G7 countries, including the US. For what it's worth, I've had to fill out tax assessment forms of greater-or-lesser complexity in all of them. The US is certainly the worst, but the trope that "all other major economies just take care of the tax for you" isn't exactly right.
  - civilized 6y ago
    So long as you're equally critical of all statements that "aren't exactly right" even when they come from groups that advocate for your political preferences, this is a totally fine and reasonable comment.
    - NovemberWhiskey 6y ago
      My comment is totally fine and reasonable because it's based on me sharing my personal experiences with others on HN, who may not have similar experience. The insinuation that this somehow comes from a viewpoint of political bias in uncalled for.
      - civilized 6y ago
        It's fair play when you use quotation marks to insinuate a strawman opposing argument that no one in the thread has actually made.
        NovemberWhiskey 6y ago
        >most other developed nations where the government just sends you a receipt for you to verify and your taxes are otherwise taken care of for you ... is quoted literally from the original post on this thread.
dsaavy 6y ago
I mean, if you're referring to the Taxpayer First Act (which specifically had stories around Intuit benefitting from the Free File provision https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a27091346/democrats-turbotax-irs-filing-corporate-power/ https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a27091346/democrats-tu...) this was bipartisan and it's disingenuous to blame a single party. If you look directly on the Congress website, there are 20 Democratic cosponsors and 8 Republican cosponsors in the House for the Taxpayer First Act: https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/3151/cosponsors https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/3151...
_huayra_ 6y ago
It gets even worse if you are a US citizen abroad. The amount of financial clout means the US can bully other countries into bending to their laws (FATCA) and citizenship-based (global) taxation means I have to shill out several hundred bucks to some specialized accountant just to avoid spending several weekends tabulating things and staying up-to-date on the law changes of the US and my current country :( If the US wants to improve its image abroad, joining the rest of the world (well, except Eritrea....) and doing residency-based taxation would mean that whenever a US expat is asked what they think about the US (e.g. by someone looking to go there for work opportunity, education), they wouldn't unleash a littany of dire warnings about the pesky taxation issues. My answer is always "yeah if it'll help your career I guess get in the H1B lottery, but be very careful to not pick up that green card or you'll be royally screwed for a looong time to come".

wombat-man 6y ago

I really don't mind paying taxes It drives me up the wall that we as a country have to all do this stupid homework assignment every year.

king_magic 6y ago
Exactly. I am more than happy to pay my fair share, which is considerable. But I am extremely not happy to have to fight through arcane, barely understandable accounting homework each year - and as a small business owner to boot, shell out a few hundred to a tax service to make sure I don't screw it up doing it myself. It's absurd.
alistairSH 6y ago
Agreed. Living in a functioning society, in the "western" world, is pretty nice and I'm happy to pay for it. But, having to spend a day or more every March, or pay a CPA a few hundred dollars, is infuriating. My taxes aren't that complicated - two upper middle class salaries, a normal (for dense suburb) mortgage, and no kid at home any more (he flew the coop 3 years ago). Outside of the years we were impacted by AMT (a whole other rant), the IRS knows exactly what we earn, what we've paid to date, and determining our mortgage obligation should be trivial (submission from bank to IRS or similar). They should just mail me an index card that says "your good!" or "you still owe $1200" or similar and that's that.

civilized 6y ago

It speaks poorly of some on HN that you would be downvoted for making this argument, which is based on well-known, documented facts. Are there Intuit shills lurking this site?

NovemberWhiskey 6y ago
I've lived and paid taxes in three of the G7 countries, including the US. For what it's worth, I've had to fill out tax assessment forms of greater-or-lesser complexity in all of them. The US is certainly the worst, but the trope that "all other major economies just take care of the tax for you" isn't exactly right.
- civilized 6y ago
  So long as you're equally critical of all statements that "aren't exactly right" even when they come from groups that advocate for your political preferences, this is a totally fine and reasonable comment.
  - NovemberWhiskey 6y ago
    My comment is totally fine and reasonable because it's based on me sharing my personal experiences with others on HN, who may not have similar experience. The insinuation that this somehow comes from a viewpoint of political bias in uncalled for.
    - civilized 6y ago
      It's fair play when you use quotation marks to insinuate a strawman opposing argument that no one in the thread has actually made.
      - NovemberWhiskey 6y ago
        >most other developed nations where the government just sends you a receipt for you to verify and your taxes are otherwise taken care of for you ... is quoted literally from the original post on this thread.

dsaavy 6y ago

I mean, if you're referring to the Taxpayer First Act (which specifically had stories around Intuit benefitting from the Free File provision https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a27091346/democrats-turbotax-irs-filing-corporate-power/ https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a27091346/democrats-tu...) this was bipartisan and it's disingenuous to blame a single party. If you look directly on the Congress website, there are 20 Democratic cosponsors and 8 Republican cosponsors in the House for the Taxpayer First Act: https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/3151/cosponsors https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/3151...

_huayra_ 6y ago

It gets even worse if you are a US citizen abroad. The amount of financial clout means the US can bully other countries into bending to their laws (FATCA) and citizenship-based (global) taxation means I have to shill out several hundred bucks to some specialized accountant just to avoid spending several weekends tabulating things and staying up-to-date on the law changes of the US and my current country :( If the US wants to improve its image abroad, joining the rest of the world (well, except Eritrea....) and doing residency-based taxation would mean that whenever a US expat is asked what they think about the US (e.g. by someone looking to go there for work opportunity, education), they wouldn't unleash a littany of dire warnings about the pesky taxation issues. My answer is always "yeah if it'll help your career I guess get in the H1B lottery, but be very careful to not pick up that green card or you'll be royally screwed for a looong time to come".