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Who would be operating that server? For how many people? With which privacy policy and which SLAs? Is it just one server (= centralisation and SPOF) or many ser

by jssfr 6y ago

Who would be operating that server? For how many people? With which privacy policy and which SLAs? Is it just one server (= centralisation and SPOF) or many servers? The idea behind Snikket (as I understand it) is more along the lines of having a tech-savvy person in your environment who’ll set up a Snikket instance for you and where they all invite the folks important to them. That means reduced centralisation while providing a lean user experience. The invites are (especially on android) super low-friction (you are presented with a nearly-complete signup after app install; you only have to enter a username (not a domain name, that’s included in the invite; just a username)). Thanks to being federated with the entire XMPP ecosystem, it can still interoperate with users who are on Quicksy or any other XMPP service out there, which is nice. I think an invite-based approach is a good middle-way to avoid encouraging centralisation (think matrix.org, jabber.org, or worse) and keeping the onboarding friction as low as possible.

zie 6y ago
I didn't say it was easy :) I think you could sign up across a set of servers, whoever is willing to put their server in the list. But you are correct, there are a host of issues, since it's all decentralized. That's the cost of decentralization, but there are solutions. One would be to be put on the list your SLA/privacy policies/etc must meet some min. standards(1) exist 2) be found at a .well-known/ etc. that way the client can easily show them to the curious user. The problem with just a username, is that's not what you need to converse with ANYONE in XMPP land, you need the full XMPP address, and last I checked, no client makes that easy for you to figure out. The full XMPP address should be easy to find as that's what you actually need. Just a username doesn't work, give up on only a username being all you need, it isn't. I think doing invites from a tech savvy snikket server instance makes sense FOR THAT USE CASE. For Tito's Grandma, where Tito & Grandma are not tech savvy people.. that's not easy. Tito gets setup on server Y and Grandma gets setup on server Z, and neither of them can talk to each other because the client only shows the 'username'. Again, I haven't knowingly used Snikket, but last time I played in XMPP, it was non-trivial, even for a tech savvy person.
- Zash 6y ago
  That's why Snikket has a focus on easy invites that automate on-boarding and contact creation. Other parts of the XMPP ecosystem also have easy invites that can be shared via QR code, SMS or any other messenger. Example: https://yax.im/i/#user@example.com https://yax.im/i/#user@example.com or https://conversations.im/i/user@example.com https://conversations.im/i/user@example.com See also https://yaxim.org/blog/2020/01/31/yaxim-0-dot-9-9-fosdem-edition/ https://yaxim.org/blog/2020/01/31/yaxim-0-dot-9-9-fosdem-edi...
  - zie 6y ago
    neat! It's seems my client doesn't understand these though. YAY for federated protocols! :)

by jssfr 6y ago

zie 6y ago

I didn't say it was easy :) I think you could sign up across a set of servers, whoever is willing to put their server in the list. But you are correct, there are a host of issues, since it's all decentralized. That's the cost of decentralization, but there are solutions. One would be to be put on the list your SLA/privacy policies/etc must meet some min. standards(1) exist 2) be found at a .well-known/ etc. that way the client can easily show them to the curious user. The problem with just a username, is that's not what you need to converse with ANYONE in XMPP land, you need the full XMPP address, and last I checked, no client makes that easy for you to figure out. The full XMPP address should be easy to find as that's what you actually need. Just a username doesn't work, give up on only a username being all you need, it isn't. I think doing invites from a tech savvy snikket server instance makes sense FOR THAT USE CASE. For Tito's Grandma, where Tito & Grandma are not tech savvy people.. that's not easy. Tito gets setup on server Y and Grandma gets setup on server Z, and neither of them can talk to each other because the client only shows the 'username'. Again, I haven't knowingly used Snikket, but last time I played in XMPP, it was non-trivial, even for a tech savvy person.

Zash 6y ago
That's why Snikket has a focus on easy invites that automate on-boarding and contact creation. Other parts of the XMPP ecosystem also have easy invites that can be shared via QR code, SMS or any other messenger. Example: https://yax.im/i/#user@example.com https://yax.im/i/#user@example.com or https://conversations.im/i/user@example.com https://conversations.im/i/user@example.com See also https://yaxim.org/blog/2020/01/31/yaxim-0-dot-9-9-fosdem-edition/ https://yaxim.org/blog/2020/01/31/yaxim-0-dot-9-9-fosdem-edi...
- zie 6y ago
  neat! It's seems my client doesn't understand these though. YAY for federated protocols! :)