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> I think it's pretty clear from the tweet that he wasn't attacking some newcomer but calling into question professional credentials. Calling into question pro

> I think it's pretty clear from the tweet that he wasn't attacking some newcomer but calling into question professional credentials. Calling into question professional credentials is, ceterus paribus, fine and not noteworthy. His metric for evaluating professional credentials was "Has this author done this oddly specific thing to attack a library I don't like?" When asked, he doubled down on this arbitrary litmus test. I even included a personal anecdote for how this kind of behavior can negatively impact newcomers to any field (regardless of actual skill level!). Unnecessary gatekeeping is a problem. Impostor Syndrome sucks.

busterarm 6y ago
No, you are missing the entire point. His comment was a response to your post. Your post discouraged people from writing crypto, because they aren't qualified. This is where you were gatekeeping. His response was, effectively: "well, you're so qualified, but you never said anything about how the industry standard library for crypto was swiss cheese for 20 years". He's basically saying that even the qualified people don't do a good job and that nobody should be discouraged from at least trying. The point is that everyone is fallible and you went out of your way to prove him right.
- soatok 6y ago
  > His comment was a response to your post. Your post discouraged people from writing crypto, because they aren't qualified. This is where you were gatekeeping. Re-read the post carefully. I included examples of people unwittingly trying to gatekeep me in the past. The negative part of that post was about scammers and crackpots who, when confronted with constructive feedback about their designs, doubled down insisting they were smarter than their critics. Being a neophyte doesn't make you a crackpot. From the article: > If you’re reading this blog post and feel like learning about cryptography and cryptanalysis and feel put off by the “don’t roll your own crypto” mantra, and its implied gatekeeping, I hope it’s clear by now who that phrase was mostly intended for and why. (i.e. "NOT YOU" was the implication of that sentence) The post in question is a lot of things, but it's not a gatekeeping piece. For that matter, I also previously wrote this one to resist the tendency of gatekeeping in cryptography: https://soatok.blog/2020/06/10/how-to-learn-cryptography-as-a-programmer/ https://soatok.blog/2020/06/10/how-to-learn-cryptography-as-...
  - busterarm 6y ago
    You can be mostly correct about things and still be worthy of criticism (we all are, really). You're taking some mild criticism from Zed way out of context and making it out to be an act of villainy. That's way too much drama for what's going on here. I know and don't particularly enjoy Zed very much, but honestly he's pretty neutral. He's done a lot of good in his community and has had some nuclear hot takes that have received outsized attention. If you really feel he's as toxic as you say, you shouldn't be giving him more of it.
    - soatok 6y ago
      I don't care about his opinions or takes, I care about the harm he inflicts by reinforcing the beliefs that undermine junior developers' confidence.
      - busterarm 6y ago
        Except Zed has demonstrably done more to boost fledgling developers' confidence than most people who have ever posted on this board. Your criticism here is nonsensical.
Tade0 6y ago
I read it as a test for someone who wants to judge the attempts of others - I don't think it qualifies as gatekeeping since newcomers rarely ever judge other newcomers.

busterarm 6y ago

No, you are missing the entire point. His comment was a response to your post. Your post discouraged people from writing crypto, because they aren't qualified. This is where you were gatekeeping. His response was, effectively: "well, you're so qualified, but you never said anything about how the industry standard library for crypto was swiss cheese for 20 years". He's basically saying that even the qualified people don't do a good job and that nobody should be discouraged from at least trying. The point is that everyone is fallible and you went out of your way to prove him right.

soatok 6y ago
> His comment was a response to your post. Your post discouraged people from writing crypto, because they aren't qualified. This is where you were gatekeeping. Re-read the post carefully. I included examples of people unwittingly trying to gatekeep me in the past. The negative part of that post was about scammers and crackpots who, when confronted with constructive feedback about their designs, doubled down insisting they were smarter than their critics. Being a neophyte doesn't make you a crackpot. From the article: > If you’re reading this blog post and feel like learning about cryptography and cryptanalysis and feel put off by the “don’t roll your own crypto” mantra, and its implied gatekeeping, I hope it’s clear by now who that phrase was mostly intended for and why. (i.e. "NOT YOU" was the implication of that sentence) The post in question is a lot of things, but it's not a gatekeeping piece. For that matter, I also previously wrote this one to resist the tendency of gatekeeping in cryptography: https://soatok.blog/2020/06/10/how-to-learn-cryptography-as-a-programmer/ https://soatok.blog/2020/06/10/how-to-learn-cryptography-as-...
- busterarm 6y ago
  You can be mostly correct about things and still be worthy of criticism (we all are, really). You're taking some mild criticism from Zed way out of context and making it out to be an act of villainy. That's way too much drama for what's going on here. I know and don't particularly enjoy Zed very much, but honestly he's pretty neutral. He's done a lot of good in his community and has had some nuclear hot takes that have received outsized attention. If you really feel he's as toxic as you say, you shouldn't be giving him more of it.
  - soatok 6y ago
    I don't care about his opinions or takes, I care about the harm he inflicts by reinforcing the beliefs that undermine junior developers' confidence.
    - busterarm 6y ago
      Except Zed has demonstrably done more to boost fledgling developers' confidence than most people who have ever posted on this board. Your criticism here is nonsensical.

Tade0 6y ago

I read it as a test for someone who wants to judge the attempts of others - I don't think it qualifies as gatekeeping since newcomers rarely ever judge other newcomers.