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Disclaimer: I learnt Python from one of Zed Shaw's books in my teens. I followed Zed Shaw on Twitter for a long time and, while he comes across as a colourful

by mkl95 6y ago

Disclaimer: I learnt Python from one of Zed Shaw's books in my teens. I followed Zed Shaw on Twitter for a long time and, while he comes across as a colourful guy who rants a bit too much, his books have been boycotted for years and he has been personally attacked several times in an unprovoked fashion. His C book was even placed in some "don't read" lists and had snippets cherry picked as examples of bad advice. Some people in the industry have tried to bully him out of his livelihood for a while, just because they don't share some of his technical opinions, and they have some grudge going back to the days when he maintained some old projects. That's just unacceptable.

some_furry 6y ago
> I followed Zed Shaw on Twitter for a long time and, while he comes across as a colourful guy who rants a bit too much, his books have been boycotted for years and he has been personally attacked several times in an unprovoked fashion. This wasn't unprovoked. I'm not a very reactionary person. I don't know the dude's history or any drama he's been involved in. My conclusion to boycott follows from the evidence and arguments raised in the post. I believe he's actively harmful to newcomers (which are the target audience for his books).
solarmist 6y ago
Did you even read the article? It’s about him trying to bully another person out of his livelihood. Just because it was done to him has no bearing on him doing it to others.
roblabla 6y ago
There's nothing unacceptable in calling for boycotting a toxic asshole. There's also nothing unacceptable in warning people against a book containing bad information. Thing is, people end up looking up to the author of books they read, following them on twitter, reading their blogs, etc... So when those authors start spouting nonsensical rhetoric, it has a very chilling and negative effect on the community. Gatekeeping in this way leads to a less diverse group of people feeling empowered to speak up and contribute their knowledge. FWIW, I did also learn python using Learn Python the Hard Way. And on its own, I do believe it to be a great book. But I don't recommend it anymore because I don't want my peers to end up looking up to some toxic asshole and getting disillusioned because of it. There are other great resources that don't come with this unnecessary baggage.
- deleted 6y ago
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- mariusor 6y ago
  > But I don't recommend it anymore because I don't want my peers to end up looking up to some toxic asshole and getting disillusioned because of it. Or you know, allow people to make up their minds about how much of an asshole someone is, instead of deciding for them with some superior paternalistic bullshit of your own. There is value in someone's work outside of their fringe personal opinions.

by mkl95 6y ago

some_furry 6y ago

> I followed Zed Shaw on Twitter for a long time and, while he comes across as a colourful guy who rants a bit too much, his books have been boycotted for years and he has been personally attacked several times in an unprovoked fashion. This wasn't unprovoked. I'm not a very reactionary person. I don't know the dude's history or any drama he's been involved in. My conclusion to boycott follows from the evidence and arguments raised in the post. I believe he's actively harmful to newcomers (which are the target audience for his books).

solarmist 6y ago

Did you even read the article? It’s about him trying to bully another person out of his livelihood. Just because it was done to him has no bearing on him doing it to others.

roblabla 6y ago

There's nothing unacceptable in calling for boycotting a toxic asshole. There's also nothing unacceptable in warning people against a book containing bad information. Thing is, people end up looking up to the author of books they read, following them on twitter, reading their blogs, etc... So when those authors start spouting nonsensical rhetoric, it has a very chilling and negative effect on the community. Gatekeeping in this way leads to a less diverse group of people feeling empowered to speak up and contribute their knowledge. FWIW, I did also learn python using Learn Python the Hard Way. And on its own, I do believe it to be a great book. But I don't recommend it anymore because I don't want my peers to end up looking up to some toxic asshole and getting disillusioned because of it. There are other great resources that don't come with this unnecessary baggage.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
mariusor 6y ago
> But I don't recommend it anymore because I don't want my peers to end up looking up to some toxic asshole and getting disillusioned because of it. Or you know, allow people to make up their minds about how much of an asshole someone is, instead of deciding for them with some superior paternalistic bullshit of your own. There is value in someone's work outside of their fringe personal opinions.