5 ms·

Are these things really better than just opening a sqlite3 database with python?

by swiley 6y ago

stockerta 6y ago
In FoxPro, heck even in Access you can easily add a GUI frontend to your DB without writing any or much code. With python... Good luck.
- silvershell 6y ago
  True. Years ago, some FoxPro developers tried to translate their experience in building apps with FoxPro to python. Check the Dabo project. It appears to be dead, though. https://github.com/dabodev/dabo https://github.com/dabodev/dabo
buescher 6y ago
Yes. Access is a fantastic database modeling and prototyping tool. It just doesn't pay, and there just isn't the tooling for moving Access databases to the web that you'd expect.
- teknopaul 6y ago
  Agreed I always thort it wierd that M$ don't have a tool to webify Access and scale it on sqlserver with no dev effort. You could charge what you like for that: if the data got big, the company got big. Great for lock-in. I'm glad, but always surprised, they didn't do it. If they had, appifying Access data would have been an earner a few years later too IMHO. Too late now: cool kids are app natives.
  - ryanjshaw 6y ago
    Have a look at the M365 Power Platform and Microsoft Dataverse.
  - hobs 6y ago
    Access does have a "Convert To SQL Server" button (though they never got the web stuff going)
  - chaostheory 6y ago
    They do now. It's called Power Apps and it's part of Office 365.
  - WorldMaker 6y ago
    As others are pointing out, they have such a thing now in Power Apps (including "appifying") and the extended Power family. But it's also not like Microsoft stopped trying to build such tools, they've had many fits and starts as priorities shifted and fads arrived and then faded away. InfoPath tried to be it for the XML world (and preferably the XML world hosted by SharePoint). SharePoint itself has always dabbled in trying to be a company's low dev solution for a lot information management/database stuff. The low dev stuff some companies have done in SharePoint Lists, for example, is wild. (A lot of the reason developers fear/hate SharePoint is the exact same "things I've seen" feeling from Access, with the added fun of upgrade issues of any modern CMS like WordPress. For most of its life Access maintained a lot of compatibility between versions until it stopped and changed file formats three times in a couple versions.)
    - buescher 6y ago
      I tried appifying my sharepoint lists and it really didn't give a better user experience than just running the sharepoint app on my phone.
- marwis 6y ago
  Since 2010 you could deploy Access as a web app to Sharepoint. It probably still works. https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/build-and-publish-an-access-database-to-sharepoint-e68bf007-410c-43b2-bf21-322ddbcf5411 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/build-and-publish... Also you can use Access as a frontend to any ODBC database such as Postgres.
  - buescher 6y ago
    Yeah, in theory. Really, it would be fantastic to be able to develop CRUD web apps as quickly as Access allows desktop CRUD development.
spaetzleesser 6y ago
It's about the UI capabilities you are getting.
teknopaul 6y ago
absolutely, I'm a die hard Linux/Unix fan, but the one tool I miss from Microsoft land is Access. The code is horrible, scale is a dead end, its expensive, clunky ugly and inflexible. But you can go from db schema and data, to forms and reports with unparalleled speed. That use case is so common. I haven't built an app on Access for years soley because M$ decided it should not be a part of the office bundle. But I have never found a replacement. For my own data I use flat files and better bash. but I can't hand that over to Mum and Pop as a solution.
- deckiedan 6y ago
  I've kind of gone to django with the built-in admin for this use-case. It's not as quick as access to get up and running - but you get the benefit of it being a very well known and supported platform - any bells and whistles you want can be pulled in, you can deploy it online or on a raspberry pi easily enough...
p_l 6y ago
Access is essentially a GUI on top of random database system (so long as you have ODBC driver or later ADO driver, it could use it). You can build impressive applications with it, and frankly it took web-first development era to do anything to it.

Are these things really better than just opening a sqlite3 database with python?

by swiley 6y ago

Are these things really better than just opening a sqlite3 database with python?

In FoxPro, heck even in Access you can easily add a GUI frontend to your DB without writing any or much code. With python... Good luck.

silvershell 6y ago
True. Years ago, some FoxPro developers tried to translate their experience in building apps with FoxPro to python. Check the Dabo project. It appears to be dead, though. https://github.com/dabodev/dabo https://github.com/dabodev/dabo

buescher 6y ago

Yes. Access is a fantastic database modeling and prototyping tool. It just doesn't pay, and there just isn't the tooling for moving Access databases to the web that you'd expect.

teknopaul 6y ago
Agreed I always thort it wierd that M$ don't have a tool to webify Access and scale it on sqlserver with no dev effort. You could charge what you like for that: if the data got big, the company got big. Great for lock-in. I'm glad, but always surprised, they didn't do it. If they had, appifying Access data would have been an earner a few years later too IMHO. Too late now: cool kids are app natives.
- ryanjshaw 6y ago
  Have a look at the M365 Power Platform and Microsoft Dataverse.
- hobs 6y ago
  Access does have a "Convert To SQL Server" button (though they never got the web stuff going)
- chaostheory 6y ago
  They do now. It's called Power Apps and it's part of Office 365.
- WorldMaker 6y ago
  As others are pointing out, they have such a thing now in Power Apps (including "appifying") and the extended Power family. But it's also not like Microsoft stopped trying to build such tools, they've had many fits and starts as priorities shifted and fads arrived and then faded away. InfoPath tried to be it for the XML world (and preferably the XML world hosted by SharePoint). SharePoint itself has always dabbled in trying to be a company's low dev solution for a lot information management/database stuff. The low dev stuff some companies have done in SharePoint Lists, for example, is wild. (A lot of the reason developers fear/hate SharePoint is the exact same "things I've seen" feeling from Access, with the added fun of upgrade issues of any modern CMS like WordPress. For most of its life Access maintained a lot of compatibility between versions until it stopped and changed file formats three times in a couple versions.)
  - buescher 6y ago
    I tried appifying my sharepoint lists and it really didn't give a better user experience than just running the sharepoint app on my phone.
marwis 6y ago
Since 2010 you could deploy Access as a web app to Sharepoint. It probably still works. https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/build-and-publish-an-access-database-to-sharepoint-e68bf007-410c-43b2-bf21-322ddbcf5411 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/build-and-publish... Also you can use Access as a frontend to any ODBC database such as Postgres.
- buescher 6y ago
  Yeah, in theory. Really, it would be fantastic to be able to develop CRUD web apps as quickly as Access allows desktop CRUD development.

spaetzleesser 6y ago

It's about the UI capabilities you are getting.

teknopaul 6y ago

absolutely, I'm a die hard Linux/Unix fan, but the one tool I miss from Microsoft land is Access. The code is horrible, scale is a dead end, its expensive, clunky ugly and inflexible. But you can go from db schema and data, to forms and reports with unparalleled speed. That use case is so common. I haven't built an app on Access for years soley because M$ decided it should not be a part of the office bundle. But I have never found a replacement. For my own data I use flat files and better bash. but I can't hand that over to Mum and Pop as a solution.

deckiedan 6y ago
I've kind of gone to django with the built-in admin for this use-case. It's not as quick as access to get up and running - but you get the benefit of it being a very well known and supported platform - any bells and whistles you want can be pulled in, you can deploy it online or on a raspberry pi easily enough...

p_l 6y ago

Access is essentially a GUI on top of random database system (so long as you have ODBC driver or later ADO driver, it could use it). You can build impressive applications with it, and frankly it took web-first development era to do anything to it.