5 ms·

In fact, birth rate decreases after a certain level of development. The first world went through the same process, the developing world today is going through t

In fact, birth rate decreases after a certain level of development. The first world went through the same process, the developing world today is going through that process much more rapidly. So the solution is probably to help them develop ASAP.

jelliclesfarm 6y ago
> So the solution is probably to help them develop ASAP. There are two kinds of mythologies that have been the cause of reckless and thoughtless procreation leading to overpopulation: 1. Religion 2. ‘Abundance’ mythologies penned by the Peter Diamandis/Steven Kotler ilk.
- Grustaf 6y ago
  I have no idea who Peter Diamandis/Steven Kotler are but I doubt they had any large effects on the overpopulation of the world. Regarding "religion": do you think "religions" came up with the concept of having a lot of children? You don't think it's simply a natural instinct, like in all other animals? And that in a world where few make it to adulthood, people tried to have more children?
  - bildung 6y ago
    > And that in a world where few make it to adulthood, people tried to have more children? It's pretty well-established that it isn't poverty per se but gender equality that predicts birth rates.
    - Grustaf 6y ago
      I'm not sure what your point is here. I simply mean that e.g. during the stone age most children died early, so you needed to have more of them.
      - bildung 6y ago
        Then I obviously misunderstood you, sorry for the confusion.
    - jmll 6y ago
      Genuinely interested, could you share some academic literature on the subject?
      - bildung 6y ago
        The newest I immediately remember is this: https://www.demographic-research.org/volumes/vol40/2/ https://www.demographic-research.org/volumes/vol40/2/ Here is a blog post of the author in case the above is not readable for you: https://www.niussp.org/article/gender-equality-and-fertility-is-there-a-connection/ https://www.niussp.org/article/gender-equality-and-fertility... This study is in the context of previous assumptions of a U-curved relationship: low equality == high birth rates, medium equality == low birth rates, high equality == high birth rates. That study shows that the last part doesn't seem to be true.
        jmll 6y ago
        Thanks!
    - pessimizer 6y ago
      Poverty can probably actually lower birth rates by forcing women into the workforce. If a parent is at home, the marginal cost is a lot lower for another child than it is if people are paying for childcare.
      - bildung 6y ago
        Direct correlation of female workforce participation and poverty shows no trend: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/female-labor-force-participation-rates-by-national-per-capita-income?tab=chart&stackMode=absolute&minPopulationFilter=1000000&country=&region=World https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/female-labor-force-partic... The macro trend of poverty <> birth rates points in the opposite direction: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_and_fertility https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_and_fertility Data points on the very poor end are all over the place, though. The high workforce participation -> low birth rate correlation is definitely visible over time: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/fertility-and-female-labor-force-participation?tab=chart&time=1960..latest&country=&region=World https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/fertility-and-female-labo...

jelliclesfarm 6y ago

> So the solution is probably to help them develop ASAP. There are two kinds of mythologies that have been the cause of reckless and thoughtless procreation leading to overpopulation: 1. Religion 2. ‘Abundance’ mythologies penned by the Peter Diamandis/Steven Kotler ilk.

Grustaf 6y ago
I have no idea who Peter Diamandis/Steven Kotler are but I doubt they had any large effects on the overpopulation of the world. Regarding "religion": do you think "religions" came up with the concept of having a lot of children? You don't think it's simply a natural instinct, like in all other animals? And that in a world where few make it to adulthood, people tried to have more children?
- bildung 6y ago
  > And that in a world where few make it to adulthood, people tried to have more children? It's pretty well-established that it isn't poverty per se but gender equality that predicts birth rates.
  - Grustaf 6y ago
    I'm not sure what your point is here. I simply mean that e.g. during the stone age most children died early, so you needed to have more of them.
    - bildung 6y ago
      Then I obviously misunderstood you, sorry for the confusion.
  - jmll 6y ago
    Genuinely interested, could you share some academic literature on the subject?
    - bildung 6y ago
      The newest I immediately remember is this: https://www.demographic-research.org/volumes/vol40/2/ https://www.demographic-research.org/volumes/vol40/2/ Here is a blog post of the author in case the above is not readable for you: https://www.niussp.org/article/gender-equality-and-fertility-is-there-a-connection/ https://www.niussp.org/article/gender-equality-and-fertility... This study is in the context of previous assumptions of a U-curved relationship: low equality == high birth rates, medium equality == low birth rates, high equality == high birth rates. That study shows that the last part doesn't seem to be true.
      - jmll 6y ago
        Thanks!
  - pessimizer 6y ago
    Poverty can probably actually lower birth rates by forcing women into the workforce. If a parent is at home, the marginal cost is a lot lower for another child than it is if people are paying for childcare.
    - bildung 6y ago
      Direct correlation of female workforce participation and poverty shows no trend: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/female-labor-force-participation-rates-by-national-per-capita-income?tab=chart&stackMode=absolute&minPopulationFilter=1000000&country=&region=World https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/female-labor-force-partic... The macro trend of poverty <> birth rates points in the opposite direction: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_and_fertility https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_and_fertility Data points on the very poor end are all over the place, though. The high workforce participation -> low birth rate correlation is definitely visible over time: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/fertility-and-female-labor-force-participation?tab=chart&time=1960..latest&country=&region=World https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/fertility-and-female-labo...