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That is so few users that the situation is basically impossible. As a retrocomputing enthusiast and the owner of computers from some of those architectures, tha

by gnu8 6y ago

That is so few users that the situation is basically impossible. As a retrocomputing enthusiast and the owner of computers from some of those architectures, that doesn't make me happy. While I find some money, and provide access to a machine, there just aren't enough dollars to support bringing Rust and LLVM to Alpha or HPPA. It just isn't a thing that can happen. Hopefully someone will tell me I'm wrong.

brundolf 6y ago
On the other hand: do enthusiast/toy systems really need the very latest security patches? It's not like they turn into bricks without this support, the old code will keep working
duskwuff 6y ago
As a fellow retrocomputing enthusiast: vintage computers are most interesting when they're running appropriate period software (e.g. OpenVMS or early Windows NT on Alpha, HP-UX on HPPA, and a variety of manufacturer-specific OSes on 680x0). Running a modern Linux on them feels like a bit of a waste -- sure, it works, but a lot of what made those systems interesting is lost.
- ThomasWinwood 6y ago
  Personally, as a fan of retro games consoles (which are broadly in the same boat as retrocomputing hardware) I'm as interested in new independently-produced software as I am in the software released during the hardware's commercial lifespan. Original games aren't getting any cheaper as copies disappear into private collections, and the economic incentives don't exist for copyright holders to make new authentic cartridges. As such, the vibrancy of these systems relies on writing new software being a pleasant experience, and there's a limit to how pleasant that experience can be when your only choice of non-assembly language is C.
  - duskwuff 6y ago
    Retro gaming consoles are kind of different. Any software for them is necessarily written for that console in particular, and can take advantage of its hardware capabilities in unique ways, even if you're using modern tools to write that software. Standard Linux software running on a PC, even an older and weirder PC, probably isn't going to do anything that interesting. At the end of the day, an X server running Firefox (or whatever) isn't going to be any different on an old PA-RISC workstation than it is on a modern desktop computer or a Raspberry Pi or whatever.
zozbot234 6y ago
> While I find some money, and provide access to a machine, there just aren't enough dollars to support bringing Rust and LLVM to Alpha or HPPA. It just isn't a thing that can happen. The Motorola 68k architecture is apparently getting included in LLVM (albeit as an 'experimental', unsupported backend) so it seems that this could be an option. Another option is to support Rust via cranelift.

by gnu8 6y ago

brundolf 6y ago

On the other hand: do enthusiast/toy systems really need the very latest security patches? It's not like they turn into bricks without this support, the old code will keep working

duskwuff 6y ago

As a fellow retrocomputing enthusiast: vintage computers are most interesting when they're running appropriate period software (e.g. OpenVMS or early Windows NT on Alpha, HP-UX on HPPA, and a variety of manufacturer-specific OSes on 680x0). Running a modern Linux on them feels like a bit of a waste -- sure, it works, but a lot of what made those systems interesting is lost.

ThomasWinwood 6y ago
Personally, as a fan of retro games consoles (which are broadly in the same boat as retrocomputing hardware) I'm as interested in new independently-produced software as I am in the software released during the hardware's commercial lifespan. Original games aren't getting any cheaper as copies disappear into private collections, and the economic incentives don't exist for copyright holders to make new authentic cartridges. As such, the vibrancy of these systems relies on writing new software being a pleasant experience, and there's a limit to how pleasant that experience can be when your only choice of non-assembly language is C.
- duskwuff 6y ago
  Retro gaming consoles are kind of different. Any software for them is necessarily written for that console in particular, and can take advantage of its hardware capabilities in unique ways, even if you're using modern tools to write that software. Standard Linux software running on a PC, even an older and weirder PC, probably isn't going to do anything that interesting. At the end of the day, an X server running Firefox (or whatever) isn't going to be any different on an old PA-RISC workstation than it is on a modern desktop computer or a Raspberry Pi or whatever.

zozbot234 6y ago

> While I find some money, and provide access to a machine, there just aren't enough dollars to support bringing Rust and LLVM to Alpha or HPPA. It just isn't a thing that can happen. The Motorola 68k architecture is apparently getting included in LLVM (albeit as an 'experimental', unsupported backend) so it seems that this could be an option. Another option is to support Rust via cranelift.