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https://foldapp.com/ https://foldapp.com/ https://store.blockstream.com/ https://store.blockstream.com/ https://acceptlightning.com/list.html https://acceptli

https://foldapp.com/ https://foldapp.com/ https://store.blockstream.com/ https://store.blockstream.com/ https://acceptlightning.com/list.html https://acceptlightning.com/list.html Several major exchanges have announced that they are implementing LN support. Still very early days.

ashtonkem 6y ago
Looking at that list, most of those are clearly crypto enthusiasts. I don't think "HODL Monkey" is a good indicator of where the market is going; ditto with exchanges. As always, call me when I can buy a latte with it.
- 3np 6y ago
  FWIW I have been buying lattes for bitcoin (a couple of which with lightning) in multiple countries since ~2012
- anonisko 6y ago
  This shouldn't be surprising. The early adopters of a finicky new technology are always going to be enthusiasts. You can buy a Starbucks gift card on fold app using LN and currently get 3% back in sats. But seriously, why would anyone spend a ton of effort right now integrating a coffee shop directly with LN in the first world? Traditional payment systems work fine. Bitcoin was never primarily concerned with replacing Visa. Think bigger.
  - arcticbull 6y ago
    Is someone in the third world chomping at the bit to pay $40 to open and close a single LN channel when that’s 10% of the GDP per capita of some of those countries you plan to help? Probably not. The only places you can get away wanging people with such egregious fees simply don’t need crypto.
    - uh-quan 6y ago
      > Is someone in the third world chomping at the bit to pay $40 to open and close a single LN channel when that’s 10% of the GDP per capita of some of those countries you plan to help? Probably not. In such cases, there is no reason such users can't "enter" bitcoin through a second layer such as the Lightning Network. Why would they do that if it isn't real bitcoin?, you might ask. Well, for one, their local, tin-pot-dictator created currencies are often worthless, meaning that even second-layer bitcoin is a far more sound and reliable currency. And who is to say $40 for an on-chain transaction is an "egregious fee"? It turns out having access to the world's most secure, decentralized, unstoppable, set-in-stone, uncensorable, trustless, non-inflationary monetary network is a valuable thing. Maybe so much so that $40 per on-chain transaction is a bargain in the bigger picture.
      - arcticbull 6y ago
        > In such cases, there is no reason such users can't "enter" bitcoin through a second layer such as the Lightning Network. Yes there is they need a channel, which costs $20 to open and $20 to close. > And who is to say $40 for an on-chain transaction is an "egregious fee"? It turns out having access to the world's most secure, decentralized, unstoppable, set-in-stone, uncensorable, trustless, non-inflationary monetary network is a valuable thing. Maybe so much so that $40 per on-chain transaction is a bargain in the bigger picture. Ah you're a comedian too!
        quartus 6y ago
        What does calling someone a "comedian" add to the conversation?
        arcticbull 6y ago
        @quartus, you're right, I apologize. I was referring to the idea that a $40 channel fee might be palatable or even negligible for folks such as those in Malawi whose GDP per capita is $400 per year.
        uh-quan 6y ago
        >Yes there is they need a channel, which costs $20 to open and $20 to close. No, they don't need to open a channel via the blockchain. They can have an account with a third party, for example.
  - ashtonkem 6y ago
    What does “think bigger” even mean here, aside from memes about Bitcoin prices going up? If your competitor is cheaper, more popular, more reliable, and more widely supported, aren’t you just straight up losing?

ashtonkem 6y ago

Looking at that list, most of those are clearly crypto enthusiasts. I don't think "HODL Monkey" is a good indicator of where the market is going; ditto with exchanges. As always, call me when I can buy a latte with it.

3np 6y ago
FWIW I have been buying lattes for bitcoin (a couple of which with lightning) in multiple countries since ~2012
anonisko 6y ago
This shouldn't be surprising. The early adopters of a finicky new technology are always going to be enthusiasts. You can buy a Starbucks gift card on fold app using LN and currently get 3% back in sats. But seriously, why would anyone spend a ton of effort right now integrating a coffee shop directly with LN in the first world? Traditional payment systems work fine. Bitcoin was never primarily concerned with replacing Visa. Think bigger.
- arcticbull 6y ago
  Is someone in the third world chomping at the bit to pay $40 to open and close a single LN channel when that’s 10% of the GDP per capita of some of those countries you plan to help? Probably not. The only places you can get away wanging people with such egregious fees simply don’t need crypto.
  - uh-quan 6y ago
    > Is someone in the third world chomping at the bit to pay $40 to open and close a single LN channel when that’s 10% of the GDP per capita of some of those countries you plan to help? Probably not. In such cases, there is no reason such users can't "enter" bitcoin through a second layer such as the Lightning Network. Why would they do that if it isn't real bitcoin?, you might ask. Well, for one, their local, tin-pot-dictator created currencies are often worthless, meaning that even second-layer bitcoin is a far more sound and reliable currency. And who is to say $40 for an on-chain transaction is an "egregious fee"? It turns out having access to the world's most secure, decentralized, unstoppable, set-in-stone, uncensorable, trustless, non-inflationary monetary network is a valuable thing. Maybe so much so that $40 per on-chain transaction is a bargain in the bigger picture.
    - arcticbull 6y ago
      > In such cases, there is no reason such users can't "enter" bitcoin through a second layer such as the Lightning Network. Yes there is they need a channel, which costs $20 to open and $20 to close. > And who is to say $40 for an on-chain transaction is an "egregious fee"? It turns out having access to the world's most secure, decentralized, unstoppable, set-in-stone, uncensorable, trustless, non-inflationary monetary network is a valuable thing. Maybe so much so that $40 per on-chain transaction is a bargain in the bigger picture. Ah you're a comedian too!
      - quartus 6y ago
        What does calling someone a "comedian" add to the conversation?
      - arcticbull 6y ago
        @quartus, you're right, I apologize. I was referring to the idea that a $40 channel fee might be palatable or even negligible for folks such as those in Malawi whose GDP per capita is $400 per year.
      - uh-quan 6y ago
        >Yes there is they need a channel, which costs $20 to open and $20 to close. No, they don't need to open a channel via the blockchain. They can have an account with a third party, for example.
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  What does “think bigger” even mean here, aside from memes about Bitcoin prices going up? If your competitor is cheaper, more popular, more reliable, and more widely supported, aren’t you just straight up losing?