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I think this is a case of Google's security team saying "we should automatically warn apps that are two months out of date that they need to update," incorrectl

I think this is a case of Google's security team saying "we should automatically warn apps that are two months out of date that they need to update," incorrectly assuming that their own apps would always update at least once every 60 days. Can you imagine being an iOS developer working on Gmail right now, having shipped literally nothing this year? I'd be requesting an internal transfer (and/or polishing my resume).

tehlike 6y ago
You are right, i was more talking about why google might be stalling.
dataflow 6y ago
> Can you imagine being an iOS developer working on Gmail right now, having shipped literally nothing this year? "This year" as in 6 weeks? Is that a lot in Google or iOS-land?
- jasonv 6y ago
  Previous to this the Google apps got frequent updates. It’s documented out there. Nothing since Dec 8 is probably as notable for devs working on features (but not this effort) as it is to us wondering when the apps are going to be updated.
  - esrauch 6y ago
    "Frequent updates" would still only be 1-2 releases by now for each app. The graph of updates stopping above overlays all the different apps which have offset releases
- spenvo 6y ago
  Check out this infographic that illustrates the frequency of Google app updates before and after December 8 https://twitter.com/Thomasbcn/status/1356645088697454596 https://twitter.com/Thomasbcn/status/1356645088697454596 After seeing that, one can not help but to assume that 1.) the lack of updates are related to the privacy label deadline and 2.) that most of its apps are in need of bug fixes and aren’t receiving those updates.
  - FridgeSeal 6y ago
    Wow that is wild. Whilst interesting, that graph does need each app split out a bit more clearly-while it’s clear that none of them have updated since the cutoff, it would be best to be able to see each apps release cadence beforehand.
    - kevincox 6y ago
      I agree. It is clear that Google has paused app releases due to this but this graphic obscures how abnormal this is for any individual app. There are 13 apps in that graph and it appears that there are usually a handful a week. So on average they are only updating monthly anyways. So a 2 month break is just skipping a release (or two) for most apps which isn't a huge break in bugfixes.
      - the_snooze 6y ago
        The telling thing is that all apps suddenly stopped updating at the same time. And it's still going.
      - GeekyBear 6y ago
        Ars Technica dug into the release history data, and it's just not possible to pretend this isn't a major break with Google's normal update cadence. In the same period during which they stopped updating the iOS version of Google search, they updated the Android version 27 times. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/02/google-flags-its-ios-apps-as-out-of-date-after-two-months-of-neglect https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/02/google-flags-its-ios...
- addicted 6y ago
  It’s long enough that Google tripped its own security warnings.
jrockway 6y ago
I think there are two concerns here. The article starts off about the "outdated" warning, then goes on a tangent about Google not releasing iOS apps anymore because of privacy labels. tehlike is talking about why they think updates stopped; with Apple's improved privacy requirements, Google has to do some work to get their apps up to that standard. For the thing that the article is about; i.e. the out of date warning, isn't that what Google is doing to all apps that embed a Google login now? > Can you imagine being an iOS developer working on Gmail right now, having shipped literally nothing this year? I'm sure they're shipping internal releases to 100,000 of their coworkers, so are probably getting feedback on new features while waiting for releases to the public to become unblocked. In the meantime, they're probably collecting more than $300,000 a year in total comp, so probably not super incentivized to quit. Google is kind of like other big companies now, I imagine -- don't rock the boat too much, do what your manager says -- with the upside that if you play your cards right you can accumulate a large chunk of savings that earns meaningful recurring income and a million dollar house you own outright before you're 40. Not for everyone, but I imagine the iOS Gmail team is not super incentivized to start burning down the corporate headquarters because they're restless about the release cycle.
- mysterydip 6y ago
  Thing is, these labels were known publically for at least a month before they were enforced. Google also managed to get out four updates of gmail 2-3 months ago, according to the history listing on the app store. This feature didn't make the cut for any of those releases?
dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago
> Can you imagine being an iOS developer working on Gmail right now, having shipped literally nothing this year? This is a bit funny because from the user's perspective it's fantastic! To put it mildly, we are not great fans of Gmail upgrades, especially big ones.
jsemrau 6y ago
That reads like a line out of Microserfs 2 if there ever would be one. Really loved the book and there should be a new version of it.
- hardlianotion 6y ago
  I had forgotten about Microserfs. A reread is in order to see how Generation X and Microserfs have dated.
esrauch 6y ago
> Can you imagine being an iOS developer working on Gmail right now, having shipped literally nothing this year? Having worked at Google, it's very common that your work takes more than 6 weeks to reach users even when you're on the full release cadence (which is maybe a release monthly for most apps, and sometimes a cherrypick bugfix release in addition). Projects taking more than 6 months from engineering complete to being live wasn't even that exceptional.
- tehlike 6y ago
  6 weeks lol. I remember winter freeze for 4-5 months!

tehlike 6y ago

You are right, i was more talking about why google might be stalling.

dataflow 6y ago

> Can you imagine being an iOS developer working on Gmail right now, having shipped literally nothing this year? "This year" as in 6 weeks? Is that a lot in Google or iOS-land?

jasonv 6y ago
Previous to this the Google apps got frequent updates. It’s documented out there. Nothing since Dec 8 is probably as notable for devs working on features (but not this effort) as it is to us wondering when the apps are going to be updated.
- esrauch 6y ago
  "Frequent updates" would still only be 1-2 releases by now for each app. The graph of updates stopping above overlays all the different apps which have offset releases
spenvo 6y ago
Check out this infographic that illustrates the frequency of Google app updates before and after December 8 https://twitter.com/Thomasbcn/status/1356645088697454596 https://twitter.com/Thomasbcn/status/1356645088697454596 After seeing that, one can not help but to assume that 1.) the lack of updates are related to the privacy label deadline and 2.) that most of its apps are in need of bug fixes and aren’t receiving those updates.
- FridgeSeal 6y ago
  Wow that is wild. Whilst interesting, that graph does need each app split out a bit more clearly-while it’s clear that none of them have updated since the cutoff, it would be best to be able to see each apps release cadence beforehand.
  - kevincox 6y ago
    I agree. It is clear that Google has paused app releases due to this but this graphic obscures how abnormal this is for any individual app. There are 13 apps in that graph and it appears that there are usually a handful a week. So on average they are only updating monthly anyways. So a 2 month break is just skipping a release (or two) for most apps which isn't a huge break in bugfixes.
    - the_snooze 6y ago
      The telling thing is that all apps suddenly stopped updating at the same time. And it's still going.
    - GeekyBear 6y ago
      Ars Technica dug into the release history data, and it's just not possible to pretend this isn't a major break with Google's normal update cadence. In the same period during which they stopped updating the iOS version of Google search, they updated the Android version 27 times. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/02/google-flags-its-ios-apps-as-out-of-date-after-two-months-of-neglect https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/02/google-flags-its-ios...
addicted 6y ago
It’s long enough that Google tripped its own security warnings.

jrockway 6y ago

I think there are two concerns here. The article starts off about the "outdated" warning, then goes on a tangent about Google not releasing iOS apps anymore because of privacy labels. tehlike is talking about why they think updates stopped; with Apple's improved privacy requirements, Google has to do some work to get their apps up to that standard. For the thing that the article is about; i.e. the out of date warning, isn't that what Google is doing to all apps that embed a Google login now? > Can you imagine being an iOS developer working on Gmail right now, having shipped literally nothing this year? I'm sure they're shipping internal releases to 100,000 of their coworkers, so are probably getting feedback on new features while waiting for releases to the public to become unblocked. In the meantime, they're probably collecting more than $300,000 a year in total comp, so probably not super incentivized to quit. Google is kind of like other big companies now, I imagine -- don't rock the boat too much, do what your manager says -- with the upside that if you play your cards right you can accumulate a large chunk of savings that earns meaningful recurring income and a million dollar house you own outright before you're 40. Not for everyone, but I imagine the iOS Gmail team is not super incentivized to start burning down the corporate headquarters because they're restless about the release cycle.

mysterydip 6y ago
Thing is, these labels were known publically for at least a month before they were enforced. Google also managed to get out four updates of gmail 2-3 months ago, according to the history listing on the app store. This feature didn't make the cut for any of those releases?

dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago

> Can you imagine being an iOS developer working on Gmail right now, having shipped literally nothing this year? This is a bit funny because from the user's perspective it's fantastic! To put it mildly, we are not great fans of Gmail upgrades, especially big ones.

jsemrau 6y ago

That reads like a line out of Microserfs 2 if there ever would be one. Really loved the book and there should be a new version of it.

hardlianotion 6y ago
I had forgotten about Microserfs. A reread is in order to see how Generation X and Microserfs have dated.

esrauch 6y ago

> Can you imagine being an iOS developer working on Gmail right now, having shipped literally nothing this year? Having worked at Google, it's very common that your work takes more than 6 weeks to reach users even when you're on the full release cadence (which is maybe a release monthly for most apps, and sometimes a cherrypick bugfix release in addition). Projects taking more than 6 months from engineering complete to being live wasn't even that exceptional.

tehlike 6y ago
6 weeks lol. I remember winter freeze for 4-5 months!