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The very likely explanation is google is trying to do a cleanup - either removing the data from the mentioned apps from ads systems, or building transparency to

The very likely explanation is google is trying to do a cleanup - either removing the data from the mentioned apps from ads systems, or building transparency tools to give you more control. disclaimer: ex-googler in ads.

dfabulich 6y ago
I think this is a case of Google's security team saying "we should automatically warn apps that are two months out of date that they need to update," incorrectly assuming that their own apps would always update at least once every 60 days. Can you imagine being an iOS developer working on Gmail right now, having shipped literally nothing this year? I'd be requesting an internal transfer (and/or polishing my resume).
- tehlike 6y ago
  You are right, i was more talking about why google might be stalling.
- dataflow 6y ago
  > Can you imagine being an iOS developer working on Gmail right now, having shipped literally nothing this year? "This year" as in 6 weeks? Is that a lot in Google or iOS-land?
  - jasonv 6y ago
    Previous to this the Google apps got frequent updates. It’s documented out there. Nothing since Dec 8 is probably as notable for devs working on features (but not this effort) as it is to us wondering when the apps are going to be updated.
    - esrauch 6y ago
      "Frequent updates" would still only be 1-2 releases by now for each app. The graph of updates stopping above overlays all the different apps which have offset releases
  - spenvo 6y ago
    Check out this infographic that illustrates the frequency of Google app updates before and after December 8 https://twitter.com/Thomasbcn/status/1356645088697454596 https://twitter.com/Thomasbcn/status/1356645088697454596 After seeing that, one can not help but to assume that 1.) the lack of updates are related to the privacy label deadline and 2.) that most of its apps are in need of bug fixes and aren’t receiving those updates.
    - FridgeSeal 6y ago
      Wow that is wild. Whilst interesting, that graph does need each app split out a bit more clearly-while it’s clear that none of them have updated since the cutoff, it would be best to be able to see each apps release cadence beforehand.
      - kevincox 6y ago
        I agree. It is clear that Google has paused app releases due to this but this graphic obscures how abnormal this is for any individual app. There are 13 apps in that graph and it appears that there are usually a handful a week. So on average they are only updating monthly anyways. So a 2 month break is just skipping a release (or two) for most apps which isn't a huge break in bugfixes.
        the_snooze 6y ago
        The telling thing is that all apps suddenly stopped updating at the same time. And it's still going.
        GeekyBear 6y ago
        Ars Technica dug into the release history data, and it's just not possible to pretend this isn't a major break with Google's normal update cadence. In the same period during which they stopped updating the iOS version of Google search, they updated the Android version 27 times. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/02/google-flags-its-ios-apps-as-out-of-date-after-two-months-of-neglect https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/02/google-flags-its-ios...
  - addicted 6y ago
    It’s long enough that Google tripped its own security warnings.
- jrockway 6y ago
  I think there are two concerns here. The article starts off about the "outdated" warning, then goes on a tangent about Google not releasing iOS apps anymore because of privacy labels. tehlike is talking about why they think updates stopped; with Apple's improved privacy requirements, Google has to do some work to get their apps up to that standard. For the thing that the article is about; i.e. the out of date warning, isn't that what Google is doing to all apps that embed a Google login now? > Can you imagine being an iOS developer working on Gmail right now, having shipped literally nothing this year? I'm sure they're shipping internal releases to 100,000 of their coworkers, so are probably getting feedback on new features while waiting for releases to the public to become unblocked. In the meantime, they're probably collecting more than $300,000 a year in total comp, so probably not super incentivized to quit. Google is kind of like other big companies now, I imagine -- don't rock the boat too much, do what your manager says -- with the upside that if you play your cards right you can accumulate a large chunk of savings that earns meaningful recurring income and a million dollar house you own outright before you're 40. Not for everyone, but I imagine the iOS Gmail team is not super incentivized to start burning down the corporate headquarters because they're restless about the release cycle.
  - mysterydip 6y ago
    Thing is, these labels were known publically for at least a month before they were enforced. Google also managed to get out four updates of gmail 2-3 months ago, according to the history listing on the app store. This feature didn't make the cut for any of those releases?
- dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago
  > Can you imagine being an iOS developer working on Gmail right now, having shipped literally nothing this year? This is a bit funny because from the user's perspective it's fantastic! To put it mildly, we are not great fans of Gmail upgrades, especially big ones.
- jsemrau 6y ago
  That reads like a line out of Microserfs 2 if there ever would be one. Really loved the book and there should be a new version of it.
  - hardlianotion 6y ago
    I had forgotten about Microserfs. A reread is in order to see how Generation X and Microserfs have dated.
- esrauch 6y ago
  > Can you imagine being an iOS developer working on Gmail right now, having shipped literally nothing this year? Having worked at Google, it's very common that your work takes more than 6 weeks to reach users even when you're on the full release cadence (which is maybe a release monthly for most apps, and sometimes a cherrypick bugfix release in addition). Projects taking more than 6 months from engineering complete to being live wasn't even that exceptional.
  - tehlike 6y ago
    6 weeks lol. I remember winter freeze for 4-5 months!
spenvo 6y ago
If you're referring to possible justifications for the delay on app update releases, I really like (and want to believe) this angle and will update the article to include the thought. If it is indeed the case - then it shows that Apple's privacy labels are having a powerful pro-consumer effect on major app developers
- tehlike 6y ago
  I would prefer if you don't quote me for obvious reasons - i am speculating. I have left google about 1 year ago, so don't have any magical knowledge besides general workings. I really think google is trying to be more good than bad in these matters, knowing how the sausage is made. but again, that's my probably biased view.
  - spenvo 6y ago
    ah ok, i never cited the thought as anything other than speculation, but I'll still unquote you in my article.
- DelightOne 6y ago
  Interesting thing is that the data they collect on iOS is probably not less on Android, because they are more likely to remove collection to hide bad practices. This makes the iOS privacy labels the minimum data they collect on Android.
minikites 6y ago
Why does this take eight months?
stefan_ 6y ago
I couldn't write a better press release! Really, "we are building the transparency tools needed to give you more control"? It's been 8 months, 2 since their homework was due. The choices are (1) they are incapable and incompetent or (2) this is a fake manufactured crisis. There isn't even any particular app change required - you literally just fill out a sheet and add another prompt.
- Nextgrid 6y ago
  I believe the changes Apple requires regarding tracking would've already been required for GDPR compliance, thus Google is almost 3 years late now.
- tehlike 6y ago
  Sadly, big corp problems. Legal, policy, old commitments, new commitments, and more importantly many opinions :)
feralimal 6y ago
The very likely explanation is google is trying to do a cleanup - either removing the data from the mentioned apps from ads systems, or building transparency tools to give them even more control, over your phone. disclaimer: deep cynic over all google's actions.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
pushingice 6y ago
They just want to give everyone the same experience Googlers get. disclaimer: ex-googler not in ads

dfabulich 6y ago

I think this is a case of Google's security team saying "we should automatically warn apps that are two months out of date that they need to update," incorrectly assuming that their own apps would always update at least once every 60 days. Can you imagine being an iOS developer working on Gmail right now, having shipped literally nothing this year? I'd be requesting an internal transfer (and/or polishing my resume).

tehlike 6y ago
You are right, i was more talking about why google might be stalling.
dataflow 6y ago
> Can you imagine being an iOS developer working on Gmail right now, having shipped literally nothing this year? "This year" as in 6 weeks? Is that a lot in Google or iOS-land?
- jasonv 6y ago
  Previous to this the Google apps got frequent updates. It’s documented out there. Nothing since Dec 8 is probably as notable for devs working on features (but not this effort) as it is to us wondering when the apps are going to be updated.
  - esrauch 6y ago
    "Frequent updates" would still only be 1-2 releases by now for each app. The graph of updates stopping above overlays all the different apps which have offset releases
- spenvo 6y ago
  Check out this infographic that illustrates the frequency of Google app updates before and after December 8 https://twitter.com/Thomasbcn/status/1356645088697454596 https://twitter.com/Thomasbcn/status/1356645088697454596 After seeing that, one can not help but to assume that 1.) the lack of updates are related to the privacy label deadline and 2.) that most of its apps are in need of bug fixes and aren’t receiving those updates.
  - FridgeSeal 6y ago
    Wow that is wild. Whilst interesting, that graph does need each app split out a bit more clearly-while it’s clear that none of them have updated since the cutoff, it would be best to be able to see each apps release cadence beforehand.
    - kevincox 6y ago
      I agree. It is clear that Google has paused app releases due to this but this graphic obscures how abnormal this is for any individual app. There are 13 apps in that graph and it appears that there are usually a handful a week. So on average they are only updating monthly anyways. So a 2 month break is just skipping a release (or two) for most apps which isn't a huge break in bugfixes.
      - the_snooze 6y ago
        The telling thing is that all apps suddenly stopped updating at the same time. And it's still going.
      - GeekyBear 6y ago
        Ars Technica dug into the release history data, and it's just not possible to pretend this isn't a major break with Google's normal update cadence. In the same period during which they stopped updating the iOS version of Google search, they updated the Android version 27 times. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/02/google-flags-its-ios-apps-as-out-of-date-after-two-months-of-neglect https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/02/google-flags-its-ios...
- addicted 6y ago
  It’s long enough that Google tripped its own security warnings.
jrockway 6y ago
I think there are two concerns here. The article starts off about the "outdated" warning, then goes on a tangent about Google not releasing iOS apps anymore because of privacy labels. tehlike is talking about why they think updates stopped; with Apple's improved privacy requirements, Google has to do some work to get their apps up to that standard. For the thing that the article is about; i.e. the out of date warning, isn't that what Google is doing to all apps that embed a Google login now? > Can you imagine being an iOS developer working on Gmail right now, having shipped literally nothing this year? I'm sure they're shipping internal releases to 100,000 of their coworkers, so are probably getting feedback on new features while waiting for releases to the public to become unblocked. In the meantime, they're probably collecting more than $300,000 a year in total comp, so probably not super incentivized to quit. Google is kind of like other big companies now, I imagine -- don't rock the boat too much, do what your manager says -- with the upside that if you play your cards right you can accumulate a large chunk of savings that earns meaningful recurring income and a million dollar house you own outright before you're 40. Not for everyone, but I imagine the iOS Gmail team is not super incentivized to start burning down the corporate headquarters because they're restless about the release cycle.
- mysterydip 6y ago
  Thing is, these labels were known publically for at least a month before they were enforced. Google also managed to get out four updates of gmail 2-3 months ago, according to the history listing on the app store. This feature didn't make the cut for any of those releases?
dvfjsdhgfv 6y ago
> Can you imagine being an iOS developer working on Gmail right now, having shipped literally nothing this year? This is a bit funny because from the user's perspective it's fantastic! To put it mildly, we are not great fans of Gmail upgrades, especially big ones.
jsemrau 6y ago
That reads like a line out of Microserfs 2 if there ever would be one. Really loved the book and there should be a new version of it.
- hardlianotion 6y ago
  I had forgotten about Microserfs. A reread is in order to see how Generation X and Microserfs have dated.
esrauch 6y ago
> Can you imagine being an iOS developer working on Gmail right now, having shipped literally nothing this year? Having worked at Google, it's very common that your work takes more than 6 weeks to reach users even when you're on the full release cadence (which is maybe a release monthly for most apps, and sometimes a cherrypick bugfix release in addition). Projects taking more than 6 months from engineering complete to being live wasn't even that exceptional.
- tehlike 6y ago
  6 weeks lol. I remember winter freeze for 4-5 months!

spenvo 6y ago

If you're referring to possible justifications for the delay on app update releases, I really like (and want to believe) this angle and will update the article to include the thought. If it is indeed the case - then it shows that Apple's privacy labels are having a powerful pro-consumer effect on major app developers

tehlike 6y ago
I would prefer if you don't quote me for obvious reasons - i am speculating. I have left google about 1 year ago, so don't have any magical knowledge besides general workings. I really think google is trying to be more good than bad in these matters, knowing how the sausage is made. but again, that's my probably biased view.
- spenvo 6y ago
  ah ok, i never cited the thought as anything other than speculation, but I'll still unquote you in my article.
DelightOne 6y ago
Interesting thing is that the data they collect on iOS is probably not less on Android, because they are more likely to remove collection to hide bad practices. This makes the iOS privacy labels the minimum data they collect on Android.

minikites 6y ago

Why does this take eight months?

stefan_ 6y ago

I couldn't write a better press release! Really, "we are building the transparency tools needed to give you more control"? It's been 8 months, 2 since their homework was due. The choices are (1) they are incapable and incompetent or (2) this is a fake manufactured crisis. There isn't even any particular app change required - you literally just fill out a sheet and add another prompt.

Nextgrid 6y ago
I believe the changes Apple requires regarding tracking would've already been required for GDPR compliance, thus Google is almost 3 years late now.
tehlike 6y ago
Sadly, big corp problems. Legal, policy, old commitments, new commitments, and more importantly many opinions :)

feralimal 6y ago

The very likely explanation is google is trying to do a cleanup - either removing the data from the mentioned apps from ads systems, or building transparency tools to give them even more control, over your phone. disclaimer: deep cynic over all google's actions.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

pushingice 6y ago

They just want to give everyone the same experience Googlers get. disclaimer: ex-googler not in ads