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How many transactions/day is Lightning handling? I recall this same discussion in late 2017. Have they managed to successfully get people using it yet?

by Permit 6y ago

arcticbull 6y ago
Roughly zero, and no. [1] [1] https://bitcoinvisuals.com/lightning https://bitcoinvisuals.com/lightning
- 3np 6y ago
  There is no number there on the number of transactions, simply because it’s impossible to measure. It’s only possible to see the lightning transactions flowing through your own node. Each channel accommodates theoretically infinite amount of transaction.
  - ashtonkem 6y ago
    More knowable question: who actually uses the lightning network to accept payment for goods and services?
    - anonisko 6y ago
      https://foldapp.com/ https://foldapp.com/ https://store.blockstream.com/ https://store.blockstream.com/ https://acceptlightning.com/list.html https://acceptlightning.com/list.html Several major exchanges have announced that they are implementing LN support. Still very early days.
      - ashtonkem 6y ago
        Looking at that list, most of those are clearly crypto enthusiasts. I don't think "HODL Monkey" is a good indicator of where the market is going; ditto with exchanges. As always, call me when I can buy a latte with it.
        3np 6y ago
        FWIW I have been buying lattes for bitcoin (a couple of which with lightning) in multiple countries since ~2012
        anonisko 6y ago
        This shouldn't be surprising. The early adopters of a finicky new technology are always going to be enthusiasts. You can buy a Starbucks gift card on fold app using LN and currently get 3% back in sats. But seriously, why would anyone spend a ton of effort right now integrating a coffee shop directly with LN in the first world? Traditional payment systems work fine. Bitcoin was never primarily concerned with replacing Visa. Think bigger.
        arcticbull 6y ago
        Is someone in the third world chomping at the bit to pay $40 to open and close a single LN channel when that’s 10% of the GDP per capita of some of those countries you plan to help? Probably not. The only places you can get away wanging people with such egregious fees simply don’t need crypto.
        uh-quan 6y ago
        > Is someone in the third world chomping at the bit to pay $40 to open and close a single LN channel when that’s 10% of the GDP per capita of some of those countries you plan to help? Probably not. In such cases, there is no reason such users can't "enter" bitcoin through a second layer such as the Lightning Network. Why would they do that if it isn't real bitcoin?, you might ask. Well, for one, their local, tin-pot-dictator created currencies are often worthless, meaning that even second-layer bitcoin is a far more sound and reliable currency. And who is to say $40 for an on-chain transaction is an "egregious fee"? It turns out having access to the world's most secure, decentralized, unstoppable, set-in-stone, uncensorable, trustless, non-inflationary monetary network is a valuable thing. Maybe so much so that $40 per on-chain transaction is a bargain in the bigger picture.
        6y ago
  - arcticbull 6y ago
    Good point, thank you for the correction.
anonisko 6y ago
You can't directly measure the number of transactions happening on lightning network unless every non leaf node publishes it's numbers, and even then you'd have to trust they're telling you the truth. And it's even more complicated than that, because you'd have to take the data from every node, and reconstruct complete paths to identify a single transaction. And yes, I personally use the Strike app + Fold app to collect satoshi rewards by buying gift cards for shopping. Strike also has a beta app that uses lightning as the rails for global p2p transfers, e.g. you can instantly send USD to EUR. https://twitter.com/JackMallers/status/1346867753253220356 https://twitter.com/JackMallers/status/1346867753253220356
helen___keller 6y ago
> Have they managed to successfully get people using it yet? I was trying to figure out the same thing a month back[0], but most of the responses I got boiled down to "you're asking the wrong question". It's hard to wade through the crowd of "it's just digital gold", but the best response I got[1] is that it works decently for places that accept it, but there are hiccups, usually around liquidity. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25675472 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25675472 [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25676779 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25676779

How many transactions/day is Lightning handling? I recall this same discussion in late 2017. Have they managed to successfully get people using it yet?

by Permit 6y ago

How many transactions/day is Lightning handling? I recall this same discussion in late 2017. Have they managed to successfully get people using it yet?

arcticbull 6y ago

Roughly zero, and no. [1] [1] https://bitcoinvisuals.com/lightning https://bitcoinvisuals.com/lightning

3np 6y ago
There is no number there on the number of transactions, simply because it’s impossible to measure. It’s only possible to see the lightning transactions flowing through your own node. Each channel accommodates theoretically infinite amount of transaction.
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  More knowable question: who actually uses the lightning network to accept payment for goods and services?
  - anonisko 6y ago
    https://foldapp.com/ https://foldapp.com/ https://store.blockstream.com/ https://store.blockstream.com/ https://acceptlightning.com/list.html https://acceptlightning.com/list.html Several major exchanges have announced that they are implementing LN support. Still very early days.
    - ashtonkem 6y ago
      Looking at that list, most of those are clearly crypto enthusiasts. I don't think "HODL Monkey" is a good indicator of where the market is going; ditto with exchanges. As always, call me when I can buy a latte with it.
      - 3np 6y ago
        FWIW I have been buying lattes for bitcoin (a couple of which with lightning) in multiple countries since ~2012
      - anonisko 6y ago
        This shouldn't be surprising. The early adopters of a finicky new technology are always going to be enthusiasts. You can buy a Starbucks gift card on fold app using LN and currently get 3% back in sats. But seriously, why would anyone spend a ton of effort right now integrating a coffee shop directly with LN in the first world? Traditional payment systems work fine. Bitcoin was never primarily concerned with replacing Visa. Think bigger.
        arcticbull 6y ago
        Is someone in the third world chomping at the bit to pay $40 to open and close a single LN channel when that’s 10% of the GDP per capita of some of those countries you plan to help? Probably not. The only places you can get away wanging people with such egregious fees simply don’t need crypto.
        uh-quan 6y ago
        > Is someone in the third world chomping at the bit to pay $40 to open and close a single LN channel when that’s 10% of the GDP per capita of some of those countries you plan to help? Probably not. In such cases, there is no reason such users can't "enter" bitcoin through a second layer such as the Lightning Network. Why would they do that if it isn't real bitcoin?, you might ask. Well, for one, their local, tin-pot-dictator created currencies are often worthless, meaning that even second-layer bitcoin is a far more sound and reliable currency. And who is to say $40 for an on-chain transaction is an "egregious fee"? It turns out having access to the world's most secure, decentralized, unstoppable, set-in-stone, uncensorable, trustless, non-inflationary monetary network is a valuable thing. Maybe so much so that $40 per on-chain transaction is a bargain in the bigger picture.
        6y ago
- arcticbull 6y ago
  Good point, thank you for the correction.

anonisko 6y ago

You can't directly measure the number of transactions happening on lightning network unless every non leaf node publishes it's numbers, and even then you'd have to trust they're telling you the truth. And it's even more complicated than that, because you'd have to take the data from every node, and reconstruct complete paths to identify a single transaction. And yes, I personally use the Strike app + Fold app to collect satoshi rewards by buying gift cards for shopping. Strike also has a beta app that uses lightning as the rails for global p2p transfers, e.g. you can instantly send USD to EUR. https://twitter.com/JackMallers/status/1346867753253220356 https://twitter.com/JackMallers/status/1346867753253220356

helen___keller 6y ago

> Have they managed to successfully get people using it yet? I was trying to figure out the same thing a month back[0], but most of the responses I got boiled down to "you're asking the wrong question". It's hard to wade through the crowd of "it's just digital gold", but the best response I got[1] is that it works decently for places that accept it, but there are hiccups, usually around liquidity. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25675472 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25675472 [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25676779 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25676779