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Fun fact for the UK: "UK police have a new tactic to circumvent strong iPhone encryption: steal the unlocked phone out of the criminal’s hand" (https://9to5mac

Fun fact for the UK: "UK police have a new tactic to circumvent strong iPhone encryption: steal the unlocked phone out of the criminal’s hand" (https://9to5mac.com/2016/12/05/uk-police-have-a-new-tactic-for-circumventing-strong-iphone-encryption-steal-the-unlocked-phone-out-of-the-criminals-hand/ https://9to5mac.com/2016/12/05/uk-police-have-a-new-tactic-f...) I remember reading this a few years back. The title says it all. Why bother cracking codes etc when you can get a judge to sign THAT for you? :) Going through the PDF of the legal document, on page 10, the screenshots have a description of the "Source extraction" (point): "....<some long zip filename-I assume the dump>/private/var/Containers/Shared/AppGroup/<long HEX number>/telegram-data/account<long number>/postbox/db/db_sqlite" I got so many questions.. I believe Telegram does NOT encrypt group chats. And the default setting is that it does NOT encrypt 1-1 chats. You have to jump the extra hoop (a couple of taps) to start a new and encrypted chat (you cannot encrypt an existing chat). So.. the chat was not encrypted? So they 'just' managed to bypass iPhone's lock, and dump all the storage, look for messaging SQLITE files, read them. Are we sure they didn't get that data from iCloud (and hiding it - with permission?). Page 11 writes: "Several videos from his iCloud depict him apparently showing off his cash." Could the authorities have gotten an automated backup from iCloud, the guy was using an unencrypted Telegram chat, so basically not much hacking took place? Side note: big Supernatural fan here - page 10, the second 'blue' message writes "..Poughkeepsie". In the Supernatural universe "Poughkeepsie" is the Winchesters' secret distress signal to each other meaning that something is wrong and they are to drop everything and run.

Nextgrid 6y ago
To defend against on-device attacks or iCloud backups, Telegram would need to do its own, separate encryption of its storage and prompt the user for a passphrase at app launch. The typical security model for iOS apps assumes that the local device is secure, as its storage is already encrypted by the system based on its passcode/biometrics (on initial power-up biometrics aren't available). End-to-end encryption within chat apps typically refers to encryption over the network. It does not include encryption of messages once they reach their intended recipients.
- JimDabell 6y ago
  > To defend against on-device attacks or iCloud backups, Telegram would need to do its own, separate encryption of its storage and prompt the user for a passphrase at app launch. This isn’t quite correct. iOS applications can exclude files from iCloud backups.
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    This would still fail to preclude an on-device attack.
josephg 6y ago
> Fun fact for the UK: "UK police have a new tactic to circumvent strong iPhone encryption: steal the unlocked phone out of the criminal’s hand" PSA: On an iphone if you hold down the power button and a volume button for a second, your phone will lock into the state its in just after you turned it on. From here it can only be unlocked with your passcode. You can perform this gesture without taking your phone out of your pocket. (Edit: When the phone is unlocked, you need to use power + volume down. Power + volume up while the phone is unlocked takes a screenshot.)
- hda2 6y ago
  > hold down the power button and a volume button for a second On android phones, it takes a screenshot.
  - josephg 6y ago
    Just checked + updated my comment. iOS also takes a screenshot when the phone is unlocked if you use power + volume up. Holding power + volume down hard locks the phone even when its unlocked
    - godelski 6y ago
      This puts android on mute. I guess place your non-registered finger on the phone multiple times for Android?
alasdair_ 6y ago
This is pretty much how Scott Albrecht of Silk Road was caught. The police caused a distraction the grabbed his unlocked laptop while he was at a cafe. Of course, maybe bringing an unlocked laptop with details of your drug empire to a cafe wasn’t the best opsec out there.
- powellzer 6y ago
  Ross Ulbricht, it was at a public library, and it was a darknet marketplace not a drug empire but they sure did make an example out of him. Free Ross.
- skinkestek 6y ago
  > Of course, maybe bringing an unlocked laptop with details of your drug empire to a cafe wasn’t the best opsec out there. Consistently running your drug empire from your home isn't good enough opsec either when you have a nation state targetting you.

Nextgrid 6y ago

To defend against on-device attacks or iCloud backups, Telegram would need to do its own, separate encryption of its storage and prompt the user for a passphrase at app launch. The typical security model for iOS apps assumes that the local device is secure, as its storage is already encrypted by the system based on its passcode/biometrics (on initial power-up biometrics aren't available). End-to-end encryption within chat apps typically refers to encryption over the network. It does not include encryption of messages once they reach their intended recipients.

JimDabell 6y ago
> To defend against on-device attacks or iCloud backups, Telegram would need to do its own, separate encryption of its storage and prompt the user for a passphrase at app launch. This isn’t quite correct. iOS applications can exclude files from iCloud backups.
- saagarjha 6y ago
  This would still fail to preclude an on-device attack.

josephg 6y ago

> Fun fact for the UK: "UK police have a new tactic to circumvent strong iPhone encryption: steal the unlocked phone out of the criminal’s hand" PSA: On an iphone if you hold down the power button and a volume button for a second, your phone will lock into the state its in just after you turned it on. From here it can only be unlocked with your passcode. You can perform this gesture without taking your phone out of your pocket. (Edit: When the phone is unlocked, you need to use power + volume down. Power + volume up while the phone is unlocked takes a screenshot.)

hda2 6y ago
> hold down the power button and a volume button for a second On android phones, it takes a screenshot.
- josephg 6y ago
  Just checked + updated my comment. iOS also takes a screenshot when the phone is unlocked if you use power + volume up. Holding power + volume down hard locks the phone even when its unlocked
  - godelski 6y ago
    This puts android on mute. I guess place your non-registered finger on the phone multiple times for Android?

alasdair_ 6y ago

This is pretty much how Scott Albrecht of Silk Road was caught. The police caused a distraction the grabbed his unlocked laptop while he was at a cafe. Of course, maybe bringing an unlocked laptop with details of your drug empire to a cafe wasn’t the best opsec out there.

powellzer 6y ago
Ross Ulbricht, it was at a public library, and it was a darknet marketplace not a drug empire but they sure did make an example out of him. Free Ross.
skinkestek 6y ago
> Of course, maybe bringing an unlocked laptop with details of your drug empire to a cafe wasn’t the best opsec out there. Consistently running your drug empire from your home isn't good enough opsec either when you have a nation state targetting you.