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They do. The reality is that there's plenty of non-secret, boring warrants which go nowhere because the police can't decrypt the traffic or read the phone memor

by lima 6y ago

They do. The reality is that there's plenty of non-secret, boring warrants which go nowhere because the police can't decrypt the traffic or read the phone memory (and here in Germany, they have less access to fancy tech). At the same time, an unprecedented amount of private conversation happens using phones, raising the stakes and the default expectation of privacy. The pendulum swung from insane dragnet surveillance to widespread availability of tech that is resistant to all but the most sophisticated surveillance efforts. Interesting times!

p1necone 6y ago
Talking quietly at the local pub is resistant to all but the most sophisticated surveillance efforts too. It's only very recently that people have been communicating over the internet, allowing the mass surveillance. All encryption does is return us back to the pre 1990s in terms of surveillance capabilities.
- lima 6y ago
  Exactly. Or going for a walk in the forest - many of these conversations are now happening online. On the flip side, even ordinary phone calls and messages are often encrypted by default now, which used to be much more readily available to law enforcement. It's such an interesting situation, society-wise.
  - deadbunny 6y ago
    > even ordinary phone calls and messages are often encrypted by default now [citation needed]
    - lima 6y ago
      In Europe, outside of business, WhatsApp messages and calls have almost completely replaced regular phone calls and SMS.
bigiain 6y ago
> and here in Germany, they have less access to fancy tech Interestingly, there’s a sort of perverse incentive going on here. If cops and governments hadn’t historically abused phone taps and sms interception - then strongly encrypted e2e tech like Signal wouldn’t have become “necessary” in the minds of non criminal users concerned about privacy, and we probably wouldn’t have had well known and widely used services/platforms like Signal and Telegram already in place for people to flock to when WhatsApp made their privacy blunder. I’m sure GreyKey and NSO are perfectly happy with a cyber arms race requiring cops to buy more and more expensive “fancy tech” every year... Interesting times indeed.

by lima 6y ago

p1necone 6y ago

Talking quietly at the local pub is resistant to all but the most sophisticated surveillance efforts too. It's only very recently that people have been communicating over the internet, allowing the mass surveillance. All encryption does is return us back to the pre 1990s in terms of surveillance capabilities.

lima 6y ago
Exactly. Or going for a walk in the forest - many of these conversations are now happening online. On the flip side, even ordinary phone calls and messages are often encrypted by default now, which used to be much more readily available to law enforcement. It's such an interesting situation, society-wise.
- deadbunny 6y ago
  > even ordinary phone calls and messages are often encrypted by default now [citation needed]
  - lima 6y ago
    In Europe, outside of business, WhatsApp messages and calls have almost completely replaced regular phone calls and SMS.

bigiain 6y ago

> and here in Germany, they have less access to fancy tech Interestingly, there’s a sort of perverse incentive going on here. If cops and governments hadn’t historically abused phone taps and sms interception - then strongly encrypted e2e tech like Signal wouldn’t have become “necessary” in the minds of non criminal users concerned about privacy, and we probably wouldn’t have had well known and widely used services/platforms like Signal and Telegram already in place for people to flock to when WhatsApp made their privacy blunder. I’m sure GreyKey and NSO are perfectly happy with a cyber arms race requiring cops to buy more and more expensive “fancy tech” every year... Interesting times indeed.