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> There is an intrigue about the new fab though: Samsung hasn't stated which process node it will be designed for. Let's restate the question. Which node can t

> There is an intrigue about the new fab though: Samsung hasn't stated which process node it will be designed for. Let's restate the question. Which node can they get up by 2023 and how much of security critical U.S. consumption can that cover?

baybal2 6y ago
> how much of security critical U.S. consumption can that cover? What US can't source for F-35 locally are Xilinx FPGAs at either 65nm, or 40nm nodes. The question is not in node size as such as having an FPGA process capability. FPGAs on generic CMOS don't work great. The ability to tweak, and optimize the process specifically for individual design is huge for FPGAs. Intel with their CPUs are very much in the same situation, but in reverse. They cannot move from "hand polished" proprietary processes they've been developing for decades to anything else.
- madengr 6y ago
  What process is Xilinx using; not CMOS?
  - baybal2 6y ago
    CMOS, but likelly with much more differences from CMOS for mainstream logic.
    - stjohnswarts 6y ago
      I doubt that. FPGA's are just digital circuits. They don't use any onboard "ROM" the vast majority load their programming from an external chip. Where are you getting they don't use standard CMOS tech?
      - kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
        Typical SRAM FPGAs use a conventional process but there are architectures that use floating gates and OTP antifuses that need specialized processing.
        hardolaf 6y ago
        And? Xilinx+Intel is 90% of the market. They're the only ones who actually matter. And I can tell you from experience that defense is considering almost no on else.
- robocat 6y ago
  > [Intel] cannot move from "hand polished" proprietary processes they've been developing for decades to anything else. Later this year TSMC will be producing Intel CPUs on 5nm. Clearly contradicts your assertion.
  - monocasa 6y ago
    That's the rumor, but it's still unsubstantiated.
    - robocat 6y ago
      True, not confirmed by Intel, but backed by fairly substantial sources: http://www.trendforce.com/presscenter/news/20210113-10651.html http://www.trendforce.com/presscenter/news/20210113-10651.ht... And: Intel CEO Bob Swan said the company had identified a "defect mode" in its 7nm process that caused yield degradation issues. As a result, Intel has invested in "contingency plans," which Swan later defined as including using third-party foundries.

baybal2 6y ago

> how much of security critical U.S. consumption can that cover? What US can't source for F-35 locally are Xilinx FPGAs at either 65nm, or 40nm nodes. The question is not in node size as such as having an FPGA process capability. FPGAs on generic CMOS don't work great. The ability to tweak, and optimize the process specifically for individual design is huge for FPGAs. Intel with their CPUs are very much in the same situation, but in reverse. They cannot move from "hand polished" proprietary processes they've been developing for decades to anything else.

madengr 6y ago
What process is Xilinx using; not CMOS?
- baybal2 6y ago
  CMOS, but likelly with much more differences from CMOS for mainstream logic.
  - stjohnswarts 6y ago
    I doubt that. FPGA's are just digital circuits. They don't use any onboard "ROM" the vast majority load their programming from an external chip. Where are you getting they don't use standard CMOS tech?
    - kevin_thibedeau 6y ago
      Typical SRAM FPGAs use a conventional process but there are architectures that use floating gates and OTP antifuses that need specialized processing.
      - hardolaf 6y ago
        And? Xilinx+Intel is 90% of the market. They're the only ones who actually matter. And I can tell you from experience that defense is considering almost no on else.
robocat 6y ago
> [Intel] cannot move from "hand polished" proprietary processes they've been developing for decades to anything else. Later this year TSMC will be producing Intel CPUs on 5nm. Clearly contradicts your assertion.
- monocasa 6y ago
  That's the rumor, but it's still unsubstantiated.
  - robocat 6y ago
    True, not confirmed by Intel, but backed by fairly substantial sources: http://www.trendforce.com/presscenter/news/20210113-10651.html http://www.trendforce.com/presscenter/news/20210113-10651.ht... And: Intel CEO Bob Swan said the company had identified a "defect mode" in its 7nm process that caused yield degradation issues. As a result, Intel has invested in "contingency plans," which Swan later defined as including using third-party foundries.