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I've upvoted you but wanted to nitpick (sorry) - innocent unless proven guilty doesn't have the temporal connotations that 'until' has.

• godelski 6y ago
  If we're going to nitpick I think HN is the place that this is acceptable, especially when done in a good manner. I do think you make a good point since "until" implies that anyone is guilty given enough time. I'll try to adopt this change into my vernacular. I updated my comment in an effort to acknowledge and support this idea.
  • bigiain 6y ago
    > “ until" implies that anyone is guilty given enough time Sadly, I think that’s considered a “feature” by modern law enforcement and judicial systems. Plea bargains and the sheer volume of laws that cannot possibly be understood by normal people make for a prosecutorial power balance that genuinely means everybody really is just “innocent until they decide to prove you guilty”. The well known “Don’t talk to police” lecture is extremely on point here: https://youtu.be/d-7o9xYp7eE https://youtu.be/d-7o9xYp7eE Your _are_ guilty of something. If you come to the attention of the wrong LEO, they will find something to prosecute you for, and like Al Capone, they’ll perfectly happily send you to jail for tax evasion if they’ve decided but cannot prove you are guilty of something else. That’s totally fucked up.