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Disclaimer: before reading this and forming an opinion, please consider I am part Jewish myself. The current situation is that you have: 1) the Jewish faith, 2

Disclaimer: before reading this and forming an opinion, please consider I am part Jewish myself. The current situation is that you have: 1) the Jewish faith, 2) Jewish ethnicities, 3) a Jewish state (Israel). Those 3 are connected: most practictioners of the Jewish faith belong to a Jewish ethnicity, the Jewish state was founded by Jews, and the Israeli law of return states that every Jew has the right to become an immigrant. Today, most people do not have a problem with 1 or 2. But 3 is a different story. There were ancient kingdoms in the Eretz Yisrael (land of Israel), such as the Kingdom of Israel and the Kingdom of Judah. Those kingdoms eventually stopped existing, and the Jewish people lost administrative control of that territory. Many Jews continued to inhabit Eretz Yisrael, but did not have administrative control over the territory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_Kokhba_revolt#Aftermath https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_Kokhba_revolt#Aftermath About 1800 years later, the Zionist movement identifies a need for the creation of a Jewish state, and successfully creates a new Jewish state in Eretz Yisrael. A large portion of the first Israeli citizens are members of the Jewish diaspora, that is, peoples who already had left Eretz Yisrael for 1800 years. To my [limited] knowledge, there is no precedent for this in history, and that is how many people scratch their heads trying to understand the legitimacy of Zionism. Especially, the pre-Israel inhabitants of Eretz Yisrael.

salawat 6y ago
I always thought the question of Zionist legitimacy came more out out the fact that what became Israel was administered by the British after WWI and over the next 20 years, was so embroiled in tension between the Zionists and the ex-ottoman's as to what the final fate of the area should be? The Arab's had a civil war there around '39 but the Jewish population hit highest tensions about a decade later following WWII and a wave of sympathy for the survivors of the Holocaust. Palestine was thought to be the inevitable outcome by the Arabs of the region, but the atrocities levied upon the Jewish people galvanized the Jewish population of the state sufficiently they were able to hold the territory against those that challenged them. An outcome of that was the Palestinian exodus in light of Israel's successful defense of it's claimed Soverignty on the Day following the end of the British Mandate. Sovereignty, and the status quo has been... Eh... Tumultuous as usual ever since. Most of that tension arising out of the dissonant expectation that Israel should lawfully have been co-part of the overall State of Palestine by it's previous residents. Just talking in terms of following the paper trail. I know both sides have their own feelings on the matter, but in terms of what the International community agreed on, Zionist legitimacy officially is defined within the terms of the U.N. Partition plan. De facto state notwithstanding. Not passing any judgement either way. I just follow the paper trail.
- 29athrowaway 6y ago
  You are referring to events from the 20th century, but the Zionist movement starts in the late 19th century. By the time the first World Zionist Congress was held in Switzerland, 1897: there was no Jewish sovereign state, and neither WW1 or WW2 had happened yet, or any of the tragedies and horrors of the 20th century that affected the Jewish people (along with other minorities). Zionists were mainly European Jewish diaspora. They were born and raised in Europe, and they had political representation through their respective governments in Europe. Zionists did not have a legitimate claim to the ancestral territory known as Eretz Yisrael, a territory that their ancestors had lost control over 1700 years prior. The modern claim to Eretz Yisrael arises from the Jewish faith. The Jewish diaspora (and every human on Earth) have the right to be treated with dignity and respect, to have a peaceful life, free of discrimination and hate. But that freedom does not equate the freedom to take those same rights from the non-Jewish inhabitants of their ancestral land.
  - marshmallow_12 6y ago
    not their ancestral land. Towards the end of the 19 century the ottomans specifically moved in a large number of arabs in order to thwart zionist aspirations. The country of jordan was created to rehouse them. Also a forgotten point that more jews were displaced from arab countries then all the palestinian refugee. Don't see any jewish refugee crisis.
    - 29athrowaway 6y ago
      There was a crisis, around the year 135 AD. That still does not make the zionist claim legitimate.
      - marshmallow_12 6y ago
        true. But then nor does a crisis around the year 1945. Still, given the option of vanishing into the earth or creating a country where you won't be murdered just for existing...

salawat 6y ago

I always thought the question of Zionist legitimacy came more out out the fact that what became Israel was administered by the British after WWI and over the next 20 years, was so embroiled in tension between the Zionists and the ex-ottoman's as to what the final fate of the area should be? The Arab's had a civil war there around '39 but the Jewish population hit highest tensions about a decade later following WWII and a wave of sympathy for the survivors of the Holocaust. Palestine was thought to be the inevitable outcome by the Arabs of the region, but the atrocities levied upon the Jewish people galvanized the Jewish population of the state sufficiently they were able to hold the territory against those that challenged them. An outcome of that was the Palestinian exodus in light of Israel's successful defense of it's claimed Soverignty on the Day following the end of the British Mandate. Sovereignty, and the status quo has been... Eh... Tumultuous as usual ever since. Most of that tension arising out of the dissonant expectation that Israel should lawfully have been co-part of the overall State of Palestine by it's previous residents. Just talking in terms of following the paper trail. I know both sides have their own feelings on the matter, but in terms of what the International community agreed on, Zionist legitimacy officially is defined within the terms of the U.N. Partition plan. De facto state notwithstanding. Not passing any judgement either way. I just follow the paper trail.

29athrowaway 6y ago
You are referring to events from the 20th century, but the Zionist movement starts in the late 19th century. By the time the first World Zionist Congress was held in Switzerland, 1897: there was no Jewish sovereign state, and neither WW1 or WW2 had happened yet, or any of the tragedies and horrors of the 20th century that affected the Jewish people (along with other minorities). Zionists were mainly European Jewish diaspora. They were born and raised in Europe, and they had political representation through their respective governments in Europe. Zionists did not have a legitimate claim to the ancestral territory known as Eretz Yisrael, a territory that their ancestors had lost control over 1700 years prior. The modern claim to Eretz Yisrael arises from the Jewish faith. The Jewish diaspora (and every human on Earth) have the right to be treated with dignity and respect, to have a peaceful life, free of discrimination and hate. But that freedom does not equate the freedom to take those same rights from the non-Jewish inhabitants of their ancestral land.
- marshmallow_12 6y ago
  not their ancestral land. Towards the end of the 19 century the ottomans specifically moved in a large number of arabs in order to thwart zionist aspirations. The country of jordan was created to rehouse them. Also a forgotten point that more jews were displaced from arab countries then all the palestinian refugee. Don't see any jewish refugee crisis.
  - 29athrowaway 6y ago
    There was a crisis, around the year 135 AD. That still does not make the zionist claim legitimate.
    - marshmallow_12 6y ago
      true. But then nor does a crisis around the year 1945. Still, given the option of vanishing into the earth or creating a country where you won't be murdered just for existing...