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Not a structural engineer, but I thought that the beams are the load bearers, while the bricks are more of less just filling vertical space. I think another in
by lhorie 6y ago
Not a structural engineer, but I thought that the beams are the load bearers, while the bricks are more of less just filling vertical space.
I think another interesting point to consider is cost. I watched a video a while back about a premise of using plastics for building roads, and in addition to the deformation/UV deterioration issues being brought up, another issue that was brought up was that concrete is cheaper than even the lowest quality recycled plastic.
- londons_explore 6y ago> the load bearers, while the bricks are more of less just filling vertical space Bricks are decorative in a few buildings, but this is by far the minority. Where bricks are used in < 8 floor high buildings, they normally are supporting the weight of the entire structure.
- dylan604 6y agoWhere do you live that a building of modern construction is supported by bricks? In the US, multi-story residences are built on wood with a brick facade. Multi-story commercial buildings are built using wood up to 4 stories (depending on locale), and steel after that.
- lmilcin 6y agoI live in Poland. Almost all buildings outside cities are bricks with bricks being load-bearing. In cities, almost all buildings older than 1950 are also made from bricks.
- londons_explore 6y agoThe US is the odd one out... I completely see why you'd make a temporary building out of wood so that you can build it in just a few days. But if this is a house, expected to last 150 years plus, and you're already bringing lots of bricks to the site, you really ought to be using the bricks to hold the building up and reserving the wood for the internal floors and other things that will be replaced every 75 years.
- syoc 6y agoA bit off topic but wood houses can, if done right, last quite a lot longer than 150 years.
- Retric 6y agoThe oldest timber frame house in the US dates to 1637. Wood easily lasts 200+ years as long as it’s thick and dry. It tends to sag over time, but most buildings end up being fairly temporary on those timescales.
- vbezhenar 6y agoYou can build wooden house that would stand 100+ years. Not US-style houses from planks, though, you just cut trees and use their trunks as a whole to build walls. Also you should protect it from the rotting.
- kube-system 6y agoThere are a very large number of 100+ year old wooden homes in the eastern half of the US. Check out Zillow with the "year built" filter. Even if you set the filter to limit results to 1899 and older, the vast majority of homes are of wood construction.
- djrogers 6y agoHeck, I live in a 91 year old wood framed and clad home in California - this isn’t limited to the east coast. This house is going to outlive me as well, barring a natural disaster (which it is better suited to withstand than a masonry home, given that my most likely disaster is an earthquake).
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- rootusrootus 6y agoWe don't use bricks for structure any more because earthquakes. Wood buildings fare much better when shaken. We also have plenty of wooden houses that have stood for 150 years.
- inglor_cz 6y agoCentral Europe mostly builds from bricks. Not just classical red bricks, Ytong is a very popular type too. Wooden structures copied from Scandinavia are slowly coming into fashion for smaller family houses (the construction process is very fast compared to bricks), but they are still very much in minority. Taller constructions are concrete + steel.
- doikor 6y ago> Taller constructions are concrete + steel. There have been some advancements in wood for taller structures in recent years. Basically they have come up with wood that is as strong as concrete. Main problem is fire/pests/rot/etc so you can't build crazy big but there are now 7 or 8 story tall apartment buildings made out of wood mainly in Helsinki for example. Making apartment buildings out of wood is also much more environment friendly then concrete (somewhere around 50% less total co2)
- inglor_cz 6y agoFennoscandinavians are very good with their wood. (Pun not intended.) When other nations try to imitate their know-how, the result is usually subpar.
- Kaibeezy 6y agoStructural wood can be more fireproof than steel. I saw this in an excellent exhibit at the National Building Museum in DC a couple of years back. Will try to track down a reference. Some discussion (and dead links) near the bottom of this thread - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16331375 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16331375
- dvirsky 6y agoIn Israel almost all construction, even single family homes (not that there are many of them), has concrete/steel beams and floors as the load baring infrastructure, and light Ytong bricks serving mainly for insulation. But it's super common to remove brick walls, interior or exterior, to make changes to home layouts, and as long as you don't touch the beams it's safe.
- p_l 6y agoWhile sibling comments mentioned a bit about differences in building approach with heavy use of brick and concrete in Europe, at times it reaches into cultural incomprehension. When US action movies started to show up more in Poland, many people joked how american movies exaggerate things by using cheap plywood scene sets for houses. Finding out that american homes are actually built like that was a bit of a shock to many.
- rootusrootus 6y agoTo be fair, a little 4.9 earthquake counts as one of the biggest ever recorded in Poland.
- why_Mr_Anderson 6y agoAnd if you know anything about electrical wiring, do not look up how they do it in those plywood houses in US, any European building inspector would have a heart attack :)
- p_l 6y agoI get shivers just from the standard outlets in USA...
- mikewarot 6y agoWhat's wrong with our outlets? We've got less voltage, and a ground plug that makes contact first. When the outlet is in a room with water, or outdoors, it goes through a ground fault interrupter to keep people from being electrocuted. We reserve 220 volt outlets and higher voltages (3 phase 480, etc) for the larger loads, and those plugs are huge, and not something found in a typical home.
- lmilcin 6y agoWhile this is all true, less voltage comes with a price and that is more current. 2 times less voltage === 4 times more heating for the same resistance (heating is calculated from R times I^2). This means that short circuits, wiring problems are potentially much dangerous.
- lmilcin 6y agoI live in a building where bricks are very much load-bearing. I have also lived in buildings that had steel or wood beams in walls for the purpose of keeping the wall rigid (so that it doesn't buckle), but the bricks were still holding most of the load.
- crazygringo 6y agoFirst-world vs third-world (approximately). In the first world, brick construction is extremely expensive and you're right -- modern residences are often built with structural beams (whether wood or steel), and the brick is usually just a veneer. But in the third world, variants of brick (e.g. cinder block) are often the norm, and are structurally load-bearing, and work fine for two to three stories. And they're very easy and cheap to build with. The US has a ton of cheap lumber so load-bearing wood frames are common. Many countries don't have forests like that so bricks/blocks are the way to go.
- andechs 6y agoCinder block construction can also be difficult to insulate and hide services such as electricity and plumbing behind. In addition, brick buildings are a bad idea in areas subject to [seismic events](https://www.npr.org/2010/01/14/122547242/haitis-buildings-werent-fit-to-withstand-quakes https://www.npr.org/2010/01/14/122547242/haitis-buildings-we...).
- lhorie 6y agoI was under the impression they used metal to reinforce masonry, but apparently not all everyone does. Found an article that goes into more details and lists pros and cons of the masonry approach here: https://theconstructor.org/construction/masonry/load-bearing-masonry-construction/2143/ https://theconstructor.org/construction/masonry/load-bearing...
- andor 6y agoI have to disagree, and I don't think the first world vs. third world comparison is helpful. Bricks are quite common in Europe, at least for buildings up to a certain height. The resulting buildings here (in Germany) offer higher living quality with better thermal and acoustic insulation than a typical North American beams + drywalls building. That's just an observation though and maybe the general construction method is not the cause - maybe it's just because our windows and doors are much more solid.
- djrogers 6y agoYeah, it’s not a 1st / 3rd world thing as much as a regional thing. Here in California wood is practically free, while stick and sheathing construction is the best way to build an earthquake resistant home. Other parts of the world have different concerns and costs.
- why_Mr_Anderson 6y agoMajor problem with plastic in roads is thermal stability and abrasion from constant wear. In the end, concrete is not only cheaper, but also much safer option.
- notahacker 6y agoStandard design for a UK house uses bricks (and an interior cinder block lining) to bear all loads unless the design calls for a very narrow pillar. Even where a timber frame bearing roof and floor loads exists so wall bricks just "fill space", they have to be sufficiently performant under compression to support the weight of brick courses above them.
- CuriouslyC 6y agoFor limited load bearing, aircrete (a concrete foam) is cheaper, and a better insulator. The main issue is that the cure time is much longer.