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I’m more interested in their compensation than how they get paid. I know lots of work is done by contractors.

by DC1350 6y ago

warent 6y ago
I don't get this. Your original comment said "Are their tools developed by high paid contractors?" but now you're claiming to have already known. What exactly are you asking?
- DC1350 6y ago
  I know contractors are common but I don’t know if they’re paid a lot or if they can ignore the government employee pay scale.
  - Jtsummers 6y ago
    Of course they can ignore the gov't employee pay scale. Contractors get paid variable amounts, depending on what they're working on and for whom. Many defense contractors (can't speak to the intel side of things) get paid 25-100% more than their GS counterparts, if they have an actual counterpart. Though that's not universal. Their pay is also not capped, like civilian pay is in the US federal government. EDIT: For further context, a technical GS employee (engineer, computer scientist) will be in a minimum of a GS-12 position after a few years of experience (usually 3-5). Most technical positions cap at GS-14. GS-15 is the highest of the GS grades, but mostly reserved for management and a select smaller group of senior technical people. A GS employee programmer will usually be a GS-12 or GS-13 until they reach a more senior position (usually with a higher degree than just a BS and often 10-20 years of experience, tending towards the higher end of that). Here is a link to the base pay, everyone gets more than this but it depends on where they work: https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/salary-tables/21Tables/html/GS.aspx https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries... Federal employees also get a 5% match on their 401k equivalent (TSP), 13-26 days of leave a year (rolls over, cap at 30), 13 days of sick leave a year (rolls over, no max), 10 federal holidays, a pension (1% of pay for each year of service, 20 years = 20%), and pretty decent insurance. If the goal isn't "get rich quick", it's not a bad gig.
    - chrononaut 6y ago
      > everyone gets more than this but it depends on where they work For those interested, here is a link to the base pay with the locality adjustment for each geographic area: https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/2021/general-schedule/ https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries...
    - bigiain 6y ago
      I would bet Palintir/NSO/Cellebrite (and many other equally capable but way less publicly known defence contractors) pay their top software engineering talent FAANG comparable rates. They almost certainly also have just as many shittily paid employees that FAANG like to pretend they do not employ, offloading admin/janitorial/support staff to 3rd party “low caste” status employment. I’d also guess BD and Sales roles at those companies pay at least as well as FAANG too. Commissions on defence contracts are worth a lot more than selling another bunch of SaaS seats to some promising VC backed startup...
  - jaywalk 6y ago
    Contractors are not government employees, so why would the government employee pay scale apply to them?
    - DC1350 6y ago
      Everything I know about contractors and government work comes from Edward Snowden’s memoir where he was paid like garbage ($120k as a senior IIRC) to work as a contractor for the NSA. That’s why I thought it might matter. I’m sorry you don’t like my question
      - bigiain 6y ago
        While I admire Snowden, I suspect his “senior role” was more like a Big4 consulting “senior” than a distinguished engineer at Microsoft or Amazon. It’s entirely possible he’d never have made it past a phone screen for a FAANG role. I’m not sure $120k (in 2013) counts as “paid like garbage” for his role. What were SREs getting paid at Google back then? I get the feeling that was a reasonably close match for the role he had?
    - Kranar 6y ago
      When someone asks a question, why not just answer it instead of questioning the person and making them feel stupid about not knowing something? At any rate, the U.S. government imposes many standards on federal government contractors including minimum wage standards, hiring practices, paid sick leave, a host of responsibilities that any contractor that wishes to do business with the federal government MUST adhere to. For example, in the area of construction all federal contractors must pay employees at a minimum, the prevailing wage including benefits for the locality of the construction site. It's not unreasonable to think and to ask what are the requirements and responsibilities that IT professionals working as federal contractors might also have. There are a ton of other requirements and conditions that you can read more about some of those requirements here: https://www.employer.gov/EmploymentIssues/Federal-contractor-requirements/ https://www.employer.gov/EmploymentIssues/Federal-contractor...
      - jaywalk 6y ago
jaywalk 6y ago
It has nothing to do with contractors. The FBI buys a product from a company that does this stuff. They do not develop it, nor do they contract out the work to develop it. They buy an (essentially) off the shelf product that does this.

I’m more interested in their compensation than how they get paid. I know lots of work is done by contractors.

by DC1350 6y ago

I’m more interested in their compensation than how they get paid. I know lots of work is done by contractors.

I don't get this. Your original comment said "Are their tools developed by high paid contractors?" but now you're claiming to have already known. What exactly are you asking?

DC1350 6y ago
I know contractors are common but I don’t know if they’re paid a lot or if they can ignore the government employee pay scale.
- Jtsummers 6y ago
  Of course they can ignore the gov't employee pay scale. Contractors get paid variable amounts, depending on what they're working on and for whom. Many defense contractors (can't speak to the intel side of things) get paid 25-100% more than their GS counterparts, if they have an actual counterpart. Though that's not universal. Their pay is also not capped, like civilian pay is in the US federal government. EDIT: For further context, a technical GS employee (engineer, computer scientist) will be in a minimum of a GS-12 position after a few years of experience (usually 3-5). Most technical positions cap at GS-14. GS-15 is the highest of the GS grades, but mostly reserved for management and a select smaller group of senior technical people. A GS employee programmer will usually be a GS-12 or GS-13 until they reach a more senior position (usually with a higher degree than just a BS and often 10-20 years of experience, tending towards the higher end of that). Here is a link to the base pay, everyone gets more than this but it depends on where they work: https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/salary-tables/21Tables/html/GS.aspx https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries... Federal employees also get a 5% match on their 401k equivalent (TSP), 13-26 days of leave a year (rolls over, cap at 30), 13 days of sick leave a year (rolls over, no max), 10 federal holidays, a pension (1% of pay for each year of service, 20 years = 20%), and pretty decent insurance. If the goal isn't "get rich quick", it's not a bad gig.
  - chrononaut 6y ago
    > everyone gets more than this but it depends on where they work For those interested, here is a link to the base pay with the locality adjustment for each geographic area: https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries-wages/2021/general-schedule/ https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/salaries...
  - bigiain 6y ago
    I would bet Palintir/NSO/Cellebrite (and many other equally capable but way less publicly known defence contractors) pay their top software engineering talent FAANG comparable rates. They almost certainly also have just as many shittily paid employees that FAANG like to pretend they do not employ, offloading admin/janitorial/support staff to 3rd party “low caste” status employment. I’d also guess BD and Sales roles at those companies pay at least as well as FAANG too. Commissions on defence contracts are worth a lot more than selling another bunch of SaaS seats to some promising VC backed startup...
- jaywalk 6y ago
  Contractors are not government employees, so why would the government employee pay scale apply to them?
  - DC1350 6y ago
    Everything I know about contractors and government work comes from Edward Snowden’s memoir where he was paid like garbage ($120k as a senior IIRC) to work as a contractor for the NSA. That’s why I thought it might matter. I’m sorry you don’t like my question
    - bigiain 6y ago
      While I admire Snowden, I suspect his “senior role” was more like a Big4 consulting “senior” than a distinguished engineer at Microsoft or Amazon. It’s entirely possible he’d never have made it past a phone screen for a FAANG role. I’m not sure $120k (in 2013) counts as “paid like garbage” for his role. What were SREs getting paid at Google back then? I get the feeling that was a reasonably close match for the role he had?
  - Kranar 6y ago
    When someone asks a question, why not just answer it instead of questioning the person and making them feel stupid about not knowing something? At any rate, the U.S. government imposes many standards on federal government contractors including minimum wage standards, hiring practices, paid sick leave, a host of responsibilities that any contractor that wishes to do business with the federal government MUST adhere to. For example, in the area of construction all federal contractors must pay employees at a minimum, the prevailing wage including benefits for the locality of the construction site. It's not unreasonable to think and to ask what are the requirements and responsibilities that IT professionals working as federal contractors might also have. There are a ton of other requirements and conditions that you can read more about some of those requirements here: https://www.employer.gov/EmploymentIssues/Federal-contractor-requirements/ https://www.employer.gov/EmploymentIssues/Federal-contractor...
    - jaywalk 6y ago

jaywalk 6y ago

It has nothing to do with contractors. The FBI buys a product from a company that does this stuff. They do not develop it, nor do they contract out the work to develop it. They buy an (essentially) off the shelf product that does this.