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Most bitcoin mining is done with hydro or solar electricity, because it's either very cheap or free. Both are renewable. And even if it wasn't, who are we too

Most bitcoin mining is done with hydro or solar electricity, because it's either very cheap or free. Both are renewable. And even if it wasn't, who are we too tell people how to spend their energy? What we really need is a proper carbon tax.

nipponese 6y ago
Source?
stouset 6y ago
Even if we accept this argument at face value, every Watt-hour of hydro or solar that goes to mining Bitcoin could have been used to reduce demand for power generated from fossil fuels. Power generation isn't perfectly fungible, but it's enough so that this argument falls completely on its face. I wish people would stop making it. Bitcoin is an environmental disaster.
- chordalkeyboard 6y ago
  > Watt-hour of hydro or solar that goes to mining Bitcoin could have been used to reduce demand for power generated from fossil fuels. No, that power would have gone to reducing the price of power and people would have found new uses for it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox
  - wmf 6y ago
    I love the Jevons paradox but it has limits. Per capita energy consumption in the US peaked in 1979 and has dropped 14% in the last 20 years. https://www.eia.gov/totalenergy/data/browser/index.php?tbl=T01.07#/?f=M&start=200001 https://www.eia.gov/totalenergy/data/browser/index.php?tbl=T...
    - chordalkeyboard 6y ago
      In the context of Jevons, wouldn’t that explain why we have bitcoin?
  - SCLeo 6y ago
    But those new uses (presumably improvements to quality of lives) are now gone because the electricity is used in mining bitcoins.
    - chordalkeyboard 6y ago
      Yes, people used it for the best available purpose. If that purpose was not available to them they would have chosen something inferior.
- insert_coin 6y ago
  You are wrong. A lot of solar is being built because of bitcoin, they are not taking energy away from other enterprises but adding renewables to the pool. The good thing is all are benefiting, now solar is becoming economically feasible as an alternative to oil for example, that wouldn't have happened so soon without the demand from bitcoin.
  - stouset 6y ago
    > A lot of solar is being built because of bitcoin A lot of solar would be built with or without Bitcoin. If the cost to build and operate solar is cheaper than the cost to operate fossil fuel plants, it will get built regardless of Bitcoin's existence. > they are not taking energy away from other enterprises but adding renewables to the pool Only if you assume that a virtually all of that solar wouldn't have been built without the existence of Bitcoin. > now solar is becoming economically feasible as an alternative to oil for example, that wouldn't have happened so soon without the demand from bitcoin. [citation needed]
- rorykoehler 6y ago
  The Chinese miners sticking rudimentary hydro-turbines in rivers to mine bitcoin in the middle of nowhere are not using energy that could otherwise be distributed. It just wouldn't be generated at all.

nipponese 6y ago

Source?

stouset 6y ago

Even if we accept this argument at face value, every Watt-hour of hydro or solar that goes to mining Bitcoin could have been used to reduce demand for power generated from fossil fuels. Power generation isn't perfectly fungible, but it's enough so that this argument falls completely on its face. I wish people would stop making it. Bitcoin is an environmental disaster.

chordalkeyboard 6y ago
> Watt-hour of hydro or solar that goes to mining Bitcoin could have been used to reduce demand for power generated from fossil fuels. No, that power would have gone to reducing the price of power and people would have found new uses for it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox
- wmf 6y ago
  I love the Jevons paradox but it has limits. Per capita energy consumption in the US peaked in 1979 and has dropped 14% in the last 20 years. https://www.eia.gov/totalenergy/data/browser/index.php?tbl=T01.07#/?f=M&start=200001 https://www.eia.gov/totalenergy/data/browser/index.php?tbl=T...
  - chordalkeyboard 6y ago
    In the context of Jevons, wouldn’t that explain why we have bitcoin?
- SCLeo 6y ago
  But those new uses (presumably improvements to quality of lives) are now gone because the electricity is used in mining bitcoins.
  - chordalkeyboard 6y ago
    Yes, people used it for the best available purpose. If that purpose was not available to them they would have chosen something inferior.
insert_coin 6y ago
You are wrong. A lot of solar is being built because of bitcoin, they are not taking energy away from other enterprises but adding renewables to the pool. The good thing is all are benefiting, now solar is becoming economically feasible as an alternative to oil for example, that wouldn't have happened so soon without the demand from bitcoin.
- stouset 6y ago
  > A lot of solar is being built because of bitcoin A lot of solar would be built with or without Bitcoin. If the cost to build and operate solar is cheaper than the cost to operate fossil fuel plants, it will get built regardless of Bitcoin's existence. > they are not taking energy away from other enterprises but adding renewables to the pool Only if you assume that a virtually all of that solar wouldn't have been built without the existence of Bitcoin. > now solar is becoming economically feasible as an alternative to oil for example, that wouldn't have happened so soon without the demand from bitcoin. [citation needed]
rorykoehler 6y ago
The Chinese miners sticking rudimentary hydro-turbines in rivers to mine bitcoin in the middle of nowhere are not using energy that could otherwise be distributed. It just wouldn't be generated at all.