4 ms·

Ah, yes, the good old indoctrination that all authoritarian governments loved this last century. When you get politics and ideologies to be taught in school, y

Ah, yes, the good old indoctrination that all authoritarian governments loved this last century. When you get politics and ideologies to be taught in school, you're doomed. It's sad to see the US turning into this.

bigmattystyles 6y ago
You have a point but let's no pretend this is new - there's been so much whitewashing of American history for instance. The way the jim crowe is just sort of skipped; most textbooks go from the civil war to voting rights and even then, there's more emphasis on the better moments. This is just another set of people getting the power over curriculum. It's not great either but it isn't new.
- fyrn- 6y ago
  Anacdotal, but my History class in highschool covered the Jim Crow laws, and that was at a pretty rural public school. The books we were using were pretty old so I don't think it's that new.
  - bigmattystyles 6y ago
    I have to admit my statement was anecdotal as well. My whole view is colored by what I've read about textbooks in Texas and how they removed or toned down the role of slavery in the civil war. I concede that much of that reporting is biased)
- Darmody 6y ago
  This is very different from whitewashing. Every country whitewashes parts of its history, sometimes unwillingly. This is an attempt to change the political landscape in the future through indoctrination. And it will not stop here.
  - bigmattystyles 6y ago
    I agree, though I would argue that whitewashing history is a subset curriculum design - I would argue though that whitewashing history is definitively an attempt to maintain the political landscape through indoctrination.
    - Darmody 6y ago
      If the manipulation of the history is not big, the indoctrination will be almost non existent. And let me tell you that I've been kind of indoctrinated by hardcore left wing history teachers. They wouldn't stop at teaching, they actively tried to make us think that the left was inherently good and the right bad. Sometimes it even backfired when they were exposed by someone who knew about the topic. Hell, one of my teachers even whitewashed a terrorist group that was still active killing people back then. This may be an extreme example but that doesn't change anything. Bad history teaching is not an excuse to bring more ideologies into school.
      - bigmattystyles 6y ago
        I'm pretty sure we agree - all I was saying is that it's not new.
- proc0 6y ago
  How was math previously whitewashed? The last time government got interested in math curriculums was, you know, one of those 20th century "dear leaders" that loved his people to death. You're conflating historical bias with a STEM field that is arguably as important as reading in modern civilization.
  - bigmattystyles 6y ago
    Oh, I'm not saying math was, I was responding to the parent comment which I interpreted as a comment on ~every~ (meant many) subject taught.
    - proc0 6y ago
      Ok, nevermind then lol.
mikestew 6y ago
"...turning into"? Let me think back to ideologies I was taught in school over 40 years ago. - Columbus was a smart guy that was the only one at the time that thought the Earth is round. He was laughed out of royal court because everyone knew the Earth was flat. (Laughed out because he calculated the size incorrectly, turns out.) - Poor ol' United States was just sitting there minding its own business when out of nowhere the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor w/o provocation. I didn't find out about any embargoes until years later. - Colonialism: those natives aren't going to civilize themselves. I could go on, but the ideology I was taught last century is easily summarized as, "America: Fuck Yeah!" I think a bit of self-examination is warranted on whether or not the fecal output of the U. S. actually does stink. Like whether or not we overly fetishize the nuclear family, for example.
- Darmody 6y ago
  Your first example is more like one of those fun facts that are wrong. It doesn't even matter. The second one was true or partially true. An economic embargo is no reason to attack a country. The third one...you should really sue the school if they taught you that. No serious teacher would say anything like that. That's not an ideology, it's bad teaching. And while not knowing your history is bad and can affect the way you see the world and hence your ideology, it is not nearly as bad as directly indoctrinating kids to make them think exactly what you want. I mean, we're talking about identity politics in math, not a history lesson that missed some points.
  - sudosysgen 6y ago
    The US Embargo on Japan had the explicit intent on weakening the Japanese economy in order to facilitate future military action. Japan attacked in no small part because they thought that if military confrontation would be inevitable, then would be the only chance where victory was possible. There were certainly teacher who would say the last one not even that long ago. It's unacceptable practically nowadays because of wokeness. And yes, that is ideology. Actually, thats almost exactly the essence of ideology. Worldview!=Ideology.
- dang 6y ago
dang 6y ago
Please don't take HN threads further into ideological battle. It's not what this site is for: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

bigmattystyles 6y ago

You have a point but let's no pretend this is new - there's been so much whitewashing of American history for instance. The way the jim crowe is just sort of skipped; most textbooks go from the civil war to voting rights and even then, there's more emphasis on the better moments. This is just another set of people getting the power over curriculum. It's not great either but it isn't new.

fyrn- 6y ago
Anacdotal, but my History class in highschool covered the Jim Crow laws, and that was at a pretty rural public school. The books we were using were pretty old so I don't think it's that new.
- bigmattystyles 6y ago
  I have to admit my statement was anecdotal as well. My whole view is colored by what I've read about textbooks in Texas and how they removed or toned down the role of slavery in the civil war. I concede that much of that reporting is biased)
Darmody 6y ago
This is very different from whitewashing. Every country whitewashes parts of its history, sometimes unwillingly. This is an attempt to change the political landscape in the future through indoctrination. And it will not stop here.
- bigmattystyles 6y ago
  I agree, though I would argue that whitewashing history is a subset curriculum design - I would argue though that whitewashing history is definitively an attempt to maintain the political landscape through indoctrination.
  - Darmody 6y ago
    If the manipulation of the history is not big, the indoctrination will be almost non existent. And let me tell you that I've been kind of indoctrinated by hardcore left wing history teachers. They wouldn't stop at teaching, they actively tried to make us think that the left was inherently good and the right bad. Sometimes it even backfired when they were exposed by someone who knew about the topic. Hell, one of my teachers even whitewashed a terrorist group that was still active killing people back then. This may be an extreme example but that doesn't change anything. Bad history teaching is not an excuse to bring more ideologies into school.
    - bigmattystyles 6y ago
      I'm pretty sure we agree - all I was saying is that it's not new.
proc0 6y ago
How was math previously whitewashed? The last time government got interested in math curriculums was, you know, one of those 20th century "dear leaders" that loved his people to death. You're conflating historical bias with a STEM field that is arguably as important as reading in modern civilization.
- bigmattystyles 6y ago
  Oh, I'm not saying math was, I was responding to the parent comment which I interpreted as a comment on ~every~ (meant many) subject taught.
  - proc0 6y ago
    Ok, nevermind then lol.

mikestew 6y ago

"...turning into"? Let me think back to ideologies I was taught in school over 40 years ago. - Columbus was a smart guy that was the only one at the time that thought the Earth is round. He was laughed out of royal court because everyone knew the Earth was flat. (Laughed out because he calculated the size incorrectly, turns out.) - Poor ol' United States was just sitting there minding its own business when out of nowhere the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor w/o provocation. I didn't find out about any embargoes until years later. - Colonialism: those natives aren't going to civilize themselves. I could go on, but the ideology I was taught last century is easily summarized as, "America: Fuck Yeah!" I think a bit of self-examination is warranted on whether or not the fecal output of the U. S. actually does stink. Like whether or not we overly fetishize the nuclear family, for example.

Darmody 6y ago
Your first example is more like one of those fun facts that are wrong. It doesn't even matter. The second one was true or partially true. An economic embargo is no reason to attack a country. The third one...you should really sue the school if they taught you that. No serious teacher would say anything like that. That's not an ideology, it's bad teaching. And while not knowing your history is bad and can affect the way you see the world and hence your ideology, it is not nearly as bad as directly indoctrinating kids to make them think exactly what you want. I mean, we're talking about identity politics in math, not a history lesson that missed some points.
- sudosysgen 6y ago
  The US Embargo on Japan had the explicit intent on weakening the Japanese economy in order to facilitate future military action. Japan attacked in no small part because they thought that if military confrontation would be inevitable, then would be the only chance where victory was possible. There were certainly teacher who would say the last one not even that long ago. It's unacceptable practically nowadays because of wokeness. And yes, that is ideology. Actually, thats almost exactly the essence of ideology. Worldview!=Ideology.
dang 6y ago

dang 6y ago

Please don't take HN threads further into ideological battle. It's not what this site is for: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html